You are Loved! Examining Propaganda of the Democratic Peoples Republic of Harvest Bible Chapel

This post examines the propaganda of the Democratic Peoples Republic of Harvest Bible Chapel. This looks at thought reform and what came out in studies by Robert Lifton, and Margaret Singer in studying Korean prisoners of war. In the propaganda campaign of James MacDonald’s Harvest Bible Chapel this post looks at the top sayings or phrases of this totalitarian movement. James MacDonald would make a fine heir to Kim Jong Un in North Korea.

“Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.”

Joseph Stalin

“One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.”

Joseph Stalin

“Great ideology creates great times.”

North Korean Dictator Kim Jong Il

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

Matthew 7:7-8 ESV

***Made a couple of corrections below in regards to the Alex and Carli Lopez. The change was made on January 22, 2018***

Kim Jong Un

The national anthem of the Democratic People’s Republic of Harvest Bible Chapel  

In the 1950’s the Cold War became hot on the Korean peninsula. As war waged one of the issues that developed was the capturing of American POWs by the North Koreans and the Chinese. During the Korean War it is estimated that 7,000 Americans were held as prisoners of war. When the armistice took effect in 1953 to some people’s shock some American troops claimed they wanted to stay. Something had apparently happened and it appeared. It was as if they were indoctrinated or brainwashed by the Chinese or North Koreans. Some of these POWs had spoken out against the United States and signed paperwork and committed themselves to either China or North Korea. Those 23 former American serviceman who refused to be repatriated took jobs in North Korea or some ended up in China in the passage of time.

The techniques used by the Chinese and North Koreans to brainwash American serviceman held captive captured the United States. Part of the story was turned into a Cold War classic – The Manchurian Candidate with Angela Lansbury. In the study of psychology and psychiatry the concept of brainwashing was studied by two well individuals, Robert Liften and Margaret Singer who contributed greatly to the field.  Robert Lifton is an American psychiatrist known for studying thought reform. His studies of Korean prisoners or war and those held captive in China led to a groundbreaking work at the time called, “Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism.Lifton had believed that after the POW is released from captivity that in time when they arrive home their thinking returns to normal. Margaret Singer is also known for her work in clinical psychology and coercive thought control. In the 1950’s when she worked at Walter Reed in Washington, D.C. she interviewed American POWs held captive in Korea. and wrote and used the experiences to advance research. 


Robert Lifton’s Eight Criteria for Thought Reform

Robert Lifton who I mentioned above came up with a listing of criteria that enables or makes thought reform possible.  This is the criteria needed to indoctrinate a person.

  1. Milieu Control.  This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.
  2. Mystical Manipulation.  There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or she wishes. 
  3. Demand for Purity.  The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection.  The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here. 
  4. Confession.  Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group.  There is no confidentiality; members’ “sins,” “attitudes,” and “faults” are discussed and exploited by the leaders. 
  5. Sacred Science.  The group’s doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute.  Truth is not to be found outside the group.  The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism. 
  6. Loading the Language.  The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand.  This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members’ thought processes to conform to the group’s way of thinking. 
  7. Doctrine over person.  Member’s personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group. 
  8. Dispensing of existence.  The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not.  This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group’s ideology.  If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the  members.  Thus, the outside world loses all credibility.  In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also.  (Lifton, 1989)



Examining the Propaganda from the Democratic People’s Republic of Harvest Bible Chapel

It is this blogger’s belief that what Robert Lifton wrote about thought reform and indoctrination could apply to how James MacDonald ran Harvest Bible Chapel. As I have studied documents and information and had long discussions with people who were involved or who have family inside I have noticed key catch phrases. Others have shared their perspectives on this organization. This blog compiled a list of those phrases and what they mean in Harvest culture. The phrases below represent the indoctrination of individuals at Harvest Bible Chapel.

  1. “You are Loved!” This phrase in my mind stands out as the most sinister phrase of Harvest Bible Chapel. Nothing screams or bothers me more than in seeing how this saying is continually used. Its used at the end of sermons, church communication, emails, in Harvest Christian Academy, posters and more. Everywhere you turn this phrase just seems to be looming. If I am seeing it this much from California, then how much are people from Elgin or Rolling Meadows seeing it? So in Harvest understanding what does “You are Loved” mean? When you translate the phrase it means you are loved for how much money you give. The more you financially give the more value you hold to the system. “You are Loved” is about protecting the brand and plays on people’s emotions especially their desire to be loved and cared for.
  2. “Believe the best in everyone.” This phrase is quite sinister and has a deeply troubling aspect to it. In the Harvest indoctrination machine it is used to justify James MacDonald’s double standard. The rules do not apply to the totalitarian head of state. Like Kim Jong Un, the Dear Leader is exempt from all enforcement of the rules. Rules are meant for people in the pews. “Believe the best in everyone” is used to keep people quiet. Silencing the people is key in order to make the totalitarian system work.
  3. Matthew 7 the entire log in the eye parable. In the Harvest propaganda machine this means that you can’t challenge or criticize the XLT, James MacDonald, or the staff.
  4. “Protect the Flock” is about protecting the brand at all costs. This is used to justify bad decisions made at Harvest. It also justifies the excommunication of those for “creating trouble.” After all to enforce totalitarianism you publicly silence one before the organization and you silence all dissent. This is what drove the church discipline and excommunication of Scott Phelps and Barry Slabaugh. You “protect the flock” and go after one or two. Damn what Jesus taught about going after the one lost sheep.
  5. “No Church is Perfect” is also very deviant. That has been used to justify a church that has allegedly engaged in criminal activity. When you translate this what it means is that we can do anything nefarious because other places are doing it as well. Its about leveling the field in the end. They do it so we can also do the same thing. Many members of Harvest are taught and trained to say this to their critics. The members in saying this uphold the totalitarian regime of James MacDonald. If you want to see an example of this go to Alex Lopez’s Facebook page and see how he does it. Alex is the husband of Carli Lopez who serves as the Director of Student Services and Guidance at Harvest Christian Academy.
  6. “You are just bitter.” This saying is the rallying cry of the True Believers inside Harvest Bible Chapel. It is launched on its critics, former Harvest pastors, staff, members and those who are outside the organization. The True Believers have the faith and have held on thus demonstrating their faith. If  you want to read more about the True Believer I would recommend Eric Hoffer’s “The True Believer – Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements.”
  7. “The Lord Loves a Cheerful Giver” is another insidious phrase of the totalitarian regime of James MacDonald. At Harvest Bible Chapel people clap and cheer when they give. They do so because they have been brainwashed to do so. Its a compulsion for many and they don’t know why they do it, expect Harvest has trained them to act this way. The inference from James MacDonald and the pulpit is that you need to give until it hurts. And that God doesn’t love you because you don’t love him enough with your tithes. The clapping and cheering when people give reminds me of how in Sovereign Grace people jumped out of their seats and just clapped for C.J. Mahaney as they were indoctrinated to do so.
  8. “Choose to sin, choose to suffer.” This is another insidious phrase of James MacDonald’s Harvest Bible Chapel. This shows the idolatry of Harvest Bible Chapel and how they function. If you make the wrong choice you will suffer. Its a sin to question Harvest, its a sin to challenge or think independently. If you sin you will suffer. This puts a warped and twisted spin on the problem of pain and suffering as in Harvest is adds a prosperity gospel component to it. If you give you will not suffer as you are not in sin. This is some really twisted manipulation from Harvest Bible Chapel.

These are some of the phrases people have talked with me about and a couple that were emerging as I worked with, studied and examined material from Harvest Bible Chapel. It is my claim that if you want to understand organizations like Harvest Bible Chapel you need to study history and totalitarian movements and regimes. Study the purges of Joseph Stalin inside the Soviet Union. Study how Nikita Khrushchev  rebuked the personality cult of Joseph Stalin. Spend time looking at how Vladimir Lenin’s image was redefined to fit the state. If you study the tactics, techniques and procedures of totalitarian movements you will look at James MacDonald in a different light. And just as North Korea has been set up to transfer power from Kim Il Sung, to Kim Jong Il to Kim Jong Un, Harvest is set up similar. That is why Landon and Luke MacDonald are so key to the organization.


The Role Harvest Christian Academy Plays in Indoctrination

In any totalitarian regime there is one factor that matters most above all else. And that is the indoctrination of the young through education. Harvest Christian Academy fits this description well. The goal is that if you get them when they are young you can control and stunt them for life. By teaching people what to think and not how to think you can create people that fall into line and support the system. True Believers like Talbott Behnken are in positions of leadership because they can enforce the status quo. Institutions like  Harvest Christian Academy have a purpose that is two fold. One is to indoctrinate the young and steer them to embrace the system of the Democratic People’s Republic of Harvest Bible Chapel. The second is to keep the parents and others in Harvest in line. This is what Dan Haskell learned when Luke MacDonald allegedly threatened him at Harvest Christian Academy. Harvest will use children as a weapon to control people in the system. Do you want to stay in good graces at Harvest Bible Chapel Elgin? If you have children in Harvest Christian Academy blindly submit to your elders under the guise of Hebrews 13:17. If you speak up or ask questions you run the risk of having the system use your children as a weapon. This is why there are a lot of people who are upset, worried and concerned about Harvest Bible Chapel but they stay silent because their kids are at Harvest Christian Academy. This blog believers this is why some of the elders are silent and go along. They have kids at Harvest and they have surrendered power to James MacDonald knowing that James will likely use their children in a power play. In the end what you really have at Harvest Bible Chapel is a totalitarian regime. If there was a way to have mass graves on the grounds at Harvest Bible Chapel in Elgin, this blog believes that James MacDonald would do it. This is why I am referring to this entity as Democratic Peoples Republic of Harvest Bible Chapel. 

86 thoughts on “You are Loved! Examining Propaganda of the Democratic Peoples Republic of Harvest Bible Chapel

  1. This is so right on. You could not have described it better. I was screaming about the corruption long before TED and this blog existed and was subjected to threats, lies and abuse before being excommunicated. You also need to realize that some of his lutenants have moved on like Higbee, Stowell and others. Please keep in mind that “biblical counseling” and any one involved in “soul care” is heaping another form of spiritual abuse on innocent people by those committed to anything but the God of the Bible making it a very satanic process.

    Mortified I made one correction to your comment. One aspect was wrong. If you want to email me I can share I just don’t want to give legitimacy to something that is not true. Other than that your fine, please speak your mind and chat away. Thanks!

    Liked by 1 person

  2. I mean, this is a little too much. I’m with you for most of what’s been reported on, but much like the guy that comments about how Rick Donald has a house worth nearly $500k in CHICAGOLAND and may make *gasp* $100,000 a year is just embarrassing. How out of touch is someone saying Rick Donald is greedy for owning the same home for 30 years and may be paid off? Do you live in your parents basement? Do you have a real job? Do you understand basic economics? The heck is with people sometimes…I feel like I joined a tee-ball team thinking it was an after work beer league.

    Let’s say I have long held ties with Harvest and a child in HCA who was failed by all the public schools…what is the solution? They thrive at HCA but the second we speak up, we fail our children’s ACTUAL future. People can hate on James for the authoritarianism and nepotism that seems indefensible, but should we vilify those that are seeking a better life for their children by providing quality education? The multitudes of good people employed by Harvest – some are loyal to a blind fault…but there are many that are good Godly people that continue to put the Bible first, even if keyboard warriors see otherwise. Maybe the blogs like this one should start discussing the theology preached at Harvest versus what the commenters believe – let the fireworks fly. I guarantee you the Elephants debt authors tote the line on some pretty hard core apostate positions, but what the heck, they call James names so ALL ABOARD THE PAIN TRAIN!! James raised pre-flop when he was a big blind in poker, Elephants Debt guys uphold a strong affinity towards Eastern Mysticism and pluralism…one of these two things pisses me off more than the other. Maybe Harvest was right to kick them out of their congregation? Protect the flock and whatnot…

    I don’t blame anyone for speaking out about what’s going on in Harvest Chicago and there are some abhorrent actions James has done. But take a step back and realize this is not your standard small town church. There are a lot of people that have vested time and love and energy and funds into growing Harvest based on it’s Bible based theology and bringing people (sometimes their children) to Christ. To dismiss them as “cult followers” or James in the same vein as a mass murderer just discredits all the authority you have in calling the leadership. Stick with the hard facts and you’ll do fine. Detour off into how someone’s real estate value has risen over 30 years or how the senior pastor is like a mass murderer in an Asian peninsula and you’re going to you have a bad time with credibility. Realize the company you keep may not be all in on Christ like you are (who here’s thinks Jesus may have been Vishnu in disguise?). My advice to everyone out there is to do your due diligence, don’t look like a moron when fighting the good fight, and stay within reason. Call out the hard facts and pray you don’t destroy people and families who truly rely on Harvest for a better future – for themselves, their kids, and their community. It’s a hard time for them, but this Kim Jong James stuff is just insane.


      • What, in my comment, makes me drink the kool-aid? I’m really curious. I don’t even attend Harvest, I just get irritated by hearing people proclaim everyone who may have made passing eye contact with James the devil incarnate. Do you enjoy intermixing the saving grace of Jesus with the divinity of the Pope? Because that’s what the guys that brought all this to the forefront did in their spare time before James became their target. Not that what they’ve done since in exposing things is something to dismiss, but honestly, why pile on with rubbish like Rick Donald’s assessed home value or how often Fred Adams played poker with friends? I personally like to stick to Biblical facts when judging others – be a watchman on the wall and uphold the throne without looking like a fool.

        Drinking the kool-aid clearly means blindly following a movement without question. While you may have some solid points in accusing some people of doing that, you are just as guilty if you ignore everything your allies proclaim in this fight. To spell it out for you, if you guys want to make this work for God’s glory you need to stop getting drunk on hyperbole and hold firm on facts. Call out the BS of the people on your side that want to make a home assessment of $500k a BIG DEAL. If we’re holding James accountable for 2008 actions, let’s look at some of his accusers stances in 2008 also (whoops, Scott Bryant’s bloodstainedink blog is private now – can’t read about how there are multiple paths to salvation). You discredit yourselves by not just sticking to the very clear issues at hand.

        Overall, hold Christ up first and foremost and focus on that: the issues at hand with James and leaders that directly contradict the teachings of Christ. The more you spew “u’r drinkin tha kool aid’ and uphold the childish hyperbolic comparisons, the more damage you do to your own cause.


      • Eh, the only thing that led me to comment at all on this blog was that someone mentioned Rick Donald’s home was assessed at close to $500k “and that’s all they need to know about him” in a previous post. I don’t disagree at all on the MacDonald home stuff, definitely straight up lying there. But I noticed you didn’t tell that commenter to not muddy the waters.


    • I left Harvest specifically because of the theology from Janes in the pulpit. If Jesus even made the sermon note blurbs, it was the last point, and somehow there was rarely time to talk about it. “I’ll have to cover that next week,” but next week was a different message, and so it didn’t get covered.

      Instead, James seemed to prefer to model what was said in the pulpit after Daft Punk’s song “Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger,” with the usual implication that these descriptors indicated the manner in which we needed to do everything to please God, or else said God was going to smite us furiously.

      There was no mention (or any such mentions were comparatively rare) of a God who loved us because of Christ. There was little, if any, leading people back to the cross. The words “sin” and “repentance” didn’t seem to be paired with concepts like grace, mercy, and forgiveness. I never heard the phrase “preach the gospel to yourself,” nor was this concept even explained to me in the eight years I was there.

      I would call what James preached a fractional gospel. He was great at telling us we were sinners and great at telling us how a Christian walk should look, but there was rarely time for that all-important Jesus bit that’s supposed to come between the two, so I voted with my feet and never looked back.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Wow danno,i actually agree with you. but this is what I’m saying, let’s expose all sides here and hash out what’s a true Biblical issue and what’s just folks piling on with idiocy. Can I take someone seriously that thinks a home valued at $450k in Palatine is the mark of the beast? No. Can I assume a mature pastor should not be stabbing pictures of people? Yes. Should I call people who want the best for their kids spawns of the devil? No. Can I acknowledge TED authors are actual apostates? Yes. Let’s focus on the true sin here and not bleed out to name calling the innocent people that attend Harvest for good intentions.


  3. 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 English Standard Version (ESV)

    The Cheerful Giver
    6 The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully[a] will also reap bountifully. 7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. I feel like I should give a shout out to this blog guy – in all the Harvest blogs I’ve tried to comment on that say anything close to exposing TED authors for the apostates they are,including Julie Roy’s blog, this is the only one that published and allowed my comments. I’ll take this opportunity to suggest everyone reading this google Internet Archive for bloodstainedink wordpress. They removed most of the controversial stuff and locked out the rest but theres enough meat there to see how fickle these guys are theologically. They don’t care about the Bible, they care about the exposure. More power to them for bringing a lot of stuff to light, but my issue is 1) you’re making a celebrity out of apostates and 2) everyone gets more crazy with the accusations. Get grounded and make this movement be about Christ and His church. Far as I can see, every main actor here (voices on social media) is just an attention whore.


    • I understand your point about not bringing up questionable side issues that look like attempts to pile on. I’d ask you to focus your attention solely on these issues and tune out the rest as noise (if I forget something important, someone can correct me)…

      1. James is relationally and verbally abusive. Multiple witnesses confirm multiple instances of explosive rage, profane language, vengeance on perceived enemies and more. Because of this, James is biblically disqualified, given the biblical standards for an elder in 1 Timothy 3. As you would probably agree, these standards do not mean that any one sinful slip would disqualify a man (we are all human), but they do mean that a general pattern of life characterized by such behavior is disqualifying.

      2. James lied about his home. Whether living in such a home evidences a heart that loves money remains a question for each individual to decide. But lying about what home you live in to get credit for sacrifice when no actual sacrifice is being made … that is sinful.

      3. Harvest sued five fellow believers. This flatly disregards the admonitions of 1 Corinthians 6.

      4. Harvest has spent money unwisely and accrued debt unwisely. Questions of greed and love of money are legitimate, because the church not only refuses to disclose its budget and key salaries, but because they have openly attacked people for even asking the question. Harvest also has a very questionable history of misusing donated funds that deserves proper investigation.

      5. Harvest wrongly used church discipline on three elders who attempted to do the job of elders. This was a sin. They have not shown the fruit of repentance by making restitution to those men.

      6. James MacDonald sinned against Harvest Bible Fellowship pastors and church members by shutting down HBF in a rage without allowing for adequate succession planning to happen. James likely also sinned against HBF by misallocating funds. He mistreated HBF pastors (and me personally) by using HBF money to assist the deposed pastor Mark Driscoll’s new church plant when us HBF plant pastors received little to no financial help.

      7. Harvest has mistreated many former staff/key leaders. Some claim Harvest has attempted to harm their reputations. Their actions appear vengeful and harsh. The sudden and unexpected dismissal of Mike Bryant’s church (for which Joel Anderson, a former staff member who participated in the excommunication with Rick Donald, has now apologized) is one key example.

      8. The inducement of John Secrest to align his independent church with HBC Chicago resulted in a coup of the church. Secrest’s pulpit was stolen. When he objected to the false pretenses of their agreement and the stealing of his pulpit, he was fired. This is nothing short of a hostile business takeover. It is repulsive, offensive to the gospel of Christ, and quite honestly, wicked.

      9. The allegations about covering up sexual abuse by former youth pastor Paxton Singer are not yet publicly proven. However, they bear watching as another potential piece of evidence.

      10. Harvest has a clear culture of nepotism and favoring wealthy and influential people. This seems a pretty clear violation of James 2.

      So, let’s just focus on those 10 things. Ignore all the rest. But I’d say those 10 things are sufficient reason for following the lead of the Great Commission Collective (an assortment of over 100 former HBF churches/pastors) along with other former eyewitnesses as staff and elders in calling for James MacDonald, Rick Donald, the XLT and the elders to repent and resign.


      Liked by 1 person

      • Agreed, I feel all those are valid points that have not been adequately answered by Harvest leadership and are woefully lacking in a Biblical justification. Paxton Singer specifically really boils my blood. Do you have a blog I can subscribe to that won’t block me or censor my comments, cause you seem like a standup guy!

        I would rather focus on all those points and figure out what Christians need to do to salvage the large majority of true Bible believing Christians that attend there. It’s not out of the realm of reason to call for resignations of leadership. I hate that so many comments in the last few months are about how anyone who likes James’ style is a lesser person or complicit in James’ actions. That’s why I bring up the TED authors – I feel they are fully disqualified as Christian judges because their core beliefs do not align with the Evangelical principles Harvests espouses. Am I qualified to critique art galleries when I can barely follow a paint by numbers? It really irks me that quality people like Julie Roys fall into protecting those authors and don’t allow comments that break the narrative. Ultimately we should be protecting the children, calling out the non-Biblical decisions and directions, voting with our feet and pocketbooks. To me, there’s no room to wish further harm to children by gaslighting parents into hurting their own kids futures. Make those kids go to Elgin public schools, that’ll teach James!! It’s ridiculous.


      • Ronery what you are trying to do is poison the well. TED authors Ryan Mahoney and Scott Bryant are fine. What you are doing is a kind of “whataboutism” which the Soviet Union did masterfully as well. TED is a fine source and one that I used and defend. I don’t practice censorship but they are not at all as you describe.


      • See, that kind of belittles the point I’m trying to make here, and really, it’s in your best interest to not belittle it. Have you ever talked to those two? Do you know their background? They’re worthless in the fight for Christ. I say that without any apprehension. They found a legit beef with a high profile person and they latched on. Ultimately, they are not like you and I (I hope you). They are ‘top minds’, their drug is being of learned status. At no point in any of their TED blogs do they personally take a stake in the Gospel – because they don’t believe it. They may be right in exposing, but they’re definitely (excuse the poker pun) the wrong hand to go all in on.

        Stick to Bible – what that Dale guy said is on point. Until he starts telling me 14th century hermeneutics override 2 Timothy 3:16, he seems to be spot on. Choose your allies wisely, because either you want this whole thing to play out how Christ wants (good!), or you want this to play out how Internet fame seeking mongoloids want (bad!). Do yourself a favor and ask your TED pals how much you have in common when it comes to our faith.


      • Note that Im-So-Ronery’s handle is that of an aria in Team America: World Police sung by Comrade Dear Leader.


      • 2. James lied about his home. Whether living in such a home evidences a heart that loves money remains a question for each individual to decide

        The one “Elder’s House” that surfaced on the Web DOES “evidence a heart” that’s a sucker for McMansion empty bling.


      • “Amen” to what and/or who?

        I’ve been commenting on spiritual abuse watchblogs for years. EVERY TIME they expose some crooked Pastor/Apostle the comment threads fill with Defenders of the Faith who have never commented before. All defending the Superapostle with every pencil-twirling semantics trick.

        Ever heard of a “Truth Squad”?
        In politics, that’s a propaganda “SWAT team” that counterattacks any criticism with a flood of propaganda.

        And “Sock Puppet”?
        Those are the “Concerned Christians”, the “Human Beings”, “Simply Christ-Follower” who echo and cheer on the Truth Squad. Tabaqui the Jackals yapping “AMEN” to the Shere Khans spearheading the counterattack.

        So which is it?


    • Haha you guys are something else! Talking out of both sides of your mouth. James is bad, James is good. James is bad James is good James is bad James is good. So afraid to let full exposure in even though that’s how God operates thoughout the Bible.


  5. Im-so-ronery – can you share a little more about this? the wayback machine has multiple snapshots that work from 2016 all the way back to the beginning of their blog in 2011. the snapshots from 2011 and 2012 won’t have anything deleted because they were snapshotted at that time. so i don’t think its fair to say they removed it – whatever was there at the time of the snapshot is still there. were you thinking of a different blog maybe? also, yes, a lot of people don’t live in a metro area and probably don’t realize that 500k for a house isn’t as much money as it seems like. probably many/most member’s houses in the north shore campus and hinsdale campus be at that price or more, and a good amount of members at rolling meadows/elgin would have homes that cost that much or more.


    • The beginning of TED is 2011, one of those authors had another blog called bloodstainedink that wasn’t focused on Harvest stuff and was active before TED. I believe it was hosted on Internet Archives are fickle, so I can’t answer for what is there now. I very clearly remember Ryan Mahoney spouting a lot of anti-Biblical nonsense on Scott Bryant’s blog before TED was launched, specifically around medieval Catholic theologians and how much we should embrace their views. As a former Catholic school kid and recovering Lutheran, reading it was a slap in the face to my sensibilities. Likewise, Scott Bryant feels like Malcolm X is a stand up guy. Again, I don’t defend any of James’ actions in how Harvest has fallen, but let’s not act like TED is a hand maiden for Christ and those that send their kids to HCA are complicit in heresy.

      On those same lines, I think if you had a personal one on one sit down with James or with the TED authors you’d hear very VASTLY different viewpoints on what a “Christian” is. James’ viewpoint would likely be in line with what the most vocal commenters against James have out there. TED views would likely severely lack in Biblical substance and be filled with philosophical highbrow antidotes. Those guys are lifelong students – the ego hurts when people don’t hold your 20 year education to a high esteem. If anyone ever gets that sit down with James, by all means bring up all the things discussed on these blogs. He has definitely sinned and needs to repent. But please also ask him what a saving grace truly is, and what the path to eternal salvation is. I 100% promise his response is only thru Jesus, whereas the guys he (inexcusably) sued will likely wiffle and waffle with ancient texts about saints and creeds and who knows what else.

      My point being, things can still be salvaged here if people focus on the right thing – stay on point and don’t stray off into whatever gets you the most likes for attacking mega-churches.


      • Im-so-ronery,

        Help me to understand you thoughts. You keep on insisting that James has the “right” believes and TED does not. What does that have to do with their behavior?

        James with all the “right” believes abuse the sheeps himself and build a system and people that abuse the sheeps that he was to care for. Tell me What did Jesus call those who had all the “right” believes but do not practice them?
        No matter what TED author’s believes, did they abuse HBC’s sheep or did they wrote about their experience and provide a place for others to share their HBC experience?

        The main issue here is not what each party believes, it is what each party did. If “right” behavior follows “right” believes all the time, NT James would not pen “Faith without work is dead”. The comparison should be what kind of work comes out of TED’s authors vs James MacDonald/HBC elders.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Hi Ray,

        I only said I believe James knows the truth path to Salvation is only thru Jesus. I didn’t say anything about the fruits of his belief or how his behavior is justified. Actually quite the opposite, as a Christian he should be recognizing all the hurt he’s causing. As Christians we can call it out and hope he does the Christian thing to make amends.

        What I’m throwing in the mix that seems to confuse folks is simply that James sued 1 Christian, 2 people that hold strikingly unchristian views and their 2 wives that I have no idea about faith wise. I guess I only bring that into the conversation because the messages here are good for the most part, and I think a lot of the Harvest flock is hearing it. Don’t throw credibility away now by getting off point on hyperbole. Additionally, don’t ascribe a Christian warrior attribute to TED authors and get in the same boat as them…its gonna start to stink in there for you when you try to pray or chat about Jesus. I won’t go as far to say they’re frauds because they’ve never discussed their views – people just assume. But as I said earlier, I research my sources and really early on before they hid their other online postings I realized the kind of guys they are. It’s blogs by Christians that I follow, read up on, and agree with mostly. Sometimes I get tired of the hyperbole and try to call it out but don’t get my comment approved. This time it worked!


      • Well sure he is. But I beg to differ on TED. Like here’s an example: if you go to a Catholic church but actively try to get others to stop going to a Bible church because that church is corrupt, you’re a bit of a hypocrite, no? Doesn’t mean you can’t have that stance and report on it and everything else. But AGAIN, let’s not hold the TED guys up as bastions of Christianity. Pretty sure if I could look at Ryan’s Facebook “Relationship with Christ” status it would be set to “It’s complicated”.


  6. Im-So-Ronery

    One move HARVEST loves to make is to look for the easiest statement to defeat, latch on, and never let go.

    Spiritual abuse…nope
    7000 sq ft house…nope
    Pastors trying to rape boys…hell no
    protecting abuseive husbands…pass
    Spending tithes on trophey deer.. nah

    Some said a 500k house was too much for a asst senior pastor? WAIT WHAAT! THIS IS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT! SHAME TO ALL YOU PEOPLE. HOW DARE U !! YOU HAVE RUINED YOUR CAUSE.. HEAR ME ROAR

    Go away or meet me for coffee and look me in the eyes. Ill buy..

    Liked by 1 person

    • But… I’m not defending any of those things (and I’m not Harvest). They’re all super valid so you’d be wasting your money and leave with bruised hands from all the back pats if wr met up.

      As a casual observer, I’m just saying chill out on the hyperbole, there’s enough out there to legit complain about. If you forgot to read, you and I are currently commenting on a blog post about how James is similar to Kim Jong Un. Sorry for pointing out that out of touch comments about how people that attend are Satan possessed, Rick Donalds middle class valued home is worth 6 figures, or “If there was a way to have mass graves on the grounds at Harvest Bible Chapel in Elgin, this blog believes that James MacDonald would do it” hurt credibility.

      When and where shall we meet up though?

      Liked by 1 person

      • No one holds TED up as the bastion of Christianity. I’m not sure how or where you getting that idea from! I think your confusing possibly some harvesters who will never think James is aweful is due in part to hyberboling. That’s not true! There are just some evangelicals who will not open their eyes to see the truth no matter what because of their own issues of pride, I’m related to one. They would much rather cover up the sin of a “pastor” than admit they were duped. But rather than admitting that’s why they want the pastor let off the hook they slab on all this Christianese stuff like it hurts the flock to air dirty laundry, or Jesus said dontpull the weeds out with the wheat cause you will pull the wheat out too. Being in the Chicago area and knowing some of the things I know I hope Harvest shuts down totally! Especially now after reading things that go all they way back to 2012 and they same type of comments way back then as there are now is sickening!

        Liked by 1 person

    • One move HARVEST loves to make is to look for the easiest statement to defeat, latch on, and never let go.

      Twirling their pens as they Debate.


  7. Im-So-Ronery, I just have a question, where was this post about Rick Donald’s salary? Rick makes as much or more than the XLT members and many of them are $250K plus when you count salary and many many benefits (health, school, etc). Also, Rick lives in a 2000 sq ft golfing community townhome in Elgin on a Rick Jacobsen designed golf course. Sometimes people post innacurate or outright banal things please don’t try to generalize everyone who posts on this blog as of that ilk.

    And please also don’t try to use this blog to attack other bloggers without proof. All I have read are accusations without proof any of these posts. Not saying that it didn’t happen, but please provide a screenshot of what you are talking about or get the data from BloodstainedInk. Regardless, how does trying to discredit TED’s pre-TED beliefs change the hard facts and proof that that website has irrefutably provided?

    Unlike you, I did attend Harvest during the times that they (TED) posted and I have found that their material was carefully researched and true through my own verification with elders and staff. I left Harvest in 2017 after trying to ‘fix the machine’ biblically to no avail. I am thankful that they exposed the hypocrisy, abuse, false teaching, and corruption that James and his crew had driven through the Lord’s church.

    It’s sad—We need to pray for James, his managerial staff henchmen, and the faux elders — because the Lord will deal with them pretty explicitly at their own personal BBQ — Matthew 7:15-20, 2nd Peter 1-9.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Very well said. I think it is interesting that the Willow Creek case was broken open by a journalist at the Chicago Tribune, and nobody cared who that journalist was or tried to discredit the journalist after the report came out. The facts of the case were all that mattered at that point.

      HBC responded with hostility to TED, and as I have followed the blog for some years now, they were very detailed and let the facts (and former insiders sharing their stories) speak for themselves. I found surprisingly very little sarcasm or inflammatory remarks, even during the lawsuit phase. It was just about the facts of the case.


    • Hey Flip,

      I don’t know anything about salaries or homes. The reason I commented here in the first place is that this post is comparing James to a mass murdering dictator. In the past, I’ve read quality posts and commenters jump in with “and some pastors there make 6 figures” or “Rick Donald lives in a home worth nearly $500k”. Claiming a 6 figure salary would include those folks that make $100k, which is actually middle class these days. I don’t jump on those commenters because to each their own. I comment here merely to say whoa fella, let’s tone back the hyperbole and bring it out of the “mass murdering dictators” scale and back to the “jim and tammy faye baker” scale.

      I’m not sure why everyone thinks I’m defending anything coming from Harvest, that leads me to my second point: along with blindly jumping on a bandwagon of increasing hyperbole, maybe we should not include in the list of issues that James is attacking fellow Christian bloggers. They just aren’t. They reported a lot of facts, they got the word out about corruption, they’re like a news reporter. The similar vein here is that much like James is not another Kim Jong Un, Ryan Mahoney and Scott Bryant are not Bible believing Christians. They may call themselves Christian, but their core beliefs are grounded in some weird mystical theological educational BS that they built from their great minds. Am I attacking them for that? No. Am I saying they’re invalidated in what they wrote about? No. They aren’t a Christian blog that writes about Christian things. They are a blog that has a beef with James and Harvest leadership and as long as they don’t venture out to their weird Christian world views, more power to them. But I include it here because much like the money stuff, commenters like to throw out stuff like “God bless these good Christian men!” They aren’t fighting a Biblical fight, they’re just pissed off Harvest didn’t want them teaching kids about how a friar in the 1400’s wrote some interesting contradictions to Jesus’ claim to divinity. It’s a Bible church and school after-all. If people don’t want me calling that out because it detracts from the real James story, then fair enough, but I would suggest people also not detract from the James story with posts about mass graves at Harvest and silly thresholds for home values.

      Liked by 1 person

      • “$850k to a Meg” does not give much information. House prices can vary from region to region.

        Describe the square footage, number of beds/baths, garage, whether there are any specialty rooms, and lot size. If possible, include a photo of an equivalent house in the area. THAT will give a better basis for comparison.


    • Also, Rick lives in a 2000 sq ft golfing community townhome in Elgin on a Rick Jacobsen designed golf course.

      THAT is much more informative than “half-million dollar house”; house prices can vary from region to region.

      And “golfing community townhome on a Rick Jacobsen-designed golf course” reeks of MONEY.
      “Why, yes. I’M RICH. However could you guess?”


  8. And just as North Korea has been set up to transfer power from Kim Il Sung, to Kim Jong Il to Kim Jong Un…

    Just as an aside, ever notice that the Royal House of Kim gets softer and pudgier with each generation?

    And they’re in the Third Generation; “Rags to Riches to Rags in three generations” is a folk proverb in both English and Chinese.
    Caesar Augustus, Caesar Tiberias, CAESAR CALIGULA.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. im-so-ronery – sorry for the confusion – i meant that anything that was on the blog when they started it in 2011 is still there on the wayback machine, so people can just go there and decide for themselves. (I didn’t specify which blog I was talking about – not TED in this case). even if they deleted something in, say, 2016, a snapshot from 2012 will have the stuff that was written in 2011, 2012, etc to the extent it hadn’t been erased at the time the snapshot was taken.

    I read some of their material back then before TED was online – for a little while they were updating both with harvest info until they finally started doing all new info at TED. but a lot of the original ‘accusations’ are still visible on bloodstained on the wayback machine. apart from blood’s harvest stuff I don’t remember anything other than people exploring various authors/philosophies/traditions which all christians do at various times when we have questions about things. that said, i didn’t read a lot of the material so i can’t really speak to what is there the way you have with confidence. i also haven’t met the authors so i don’t know if their agenda was simply that – asking questions and exploring as we all do from time to time in life – or if it was something else.

    in the bible god used people of all kinds to do his work, including those who weren’t on track theologically like balaam, babylon to teach israel, etc. most of us have theological views that probably don’t line up perfectly with the truth about any number of points, but god uses us anyway to effect his purposes whether he endorses it or not. my guess is that in any public situation like this, a lot of people piling on in twitter or whatever aren’t even christians by *anyone’s* definition including their own, but god may be using their observations to effect his purposes anyway.*/

    flipper999 – whatever info he was talking about would be there. people can decide for themselves.

    some of the twitters and comments in blogs and even “main blog pages” about this whole thing have been really over the top and causing a loss of credibiility as im-so-ronery said.


  10. im-so-ronery – sorry for the confusion – i meant that anything that was on the blog when they started it in 2011 is still there on the wayback machine, so people can just go there and decide for themselves. (I didn’t specify which blog I was talking about – not TED in this case). even if they deleted something in, say, 2016, a snapshot from 2012 will have the stuff that was written in 2011, 2012, etc to the extent it hadn’t been erased at the time the snapshot was taken.

    I read some of their material back then before TED was online – for a little while they were updating both with harvest info until they finally started doing all new info at TED. but a lot of the original ‘accusations’ are still visible on bloodstained on the wayback machine. apart from blood’s harvest stuff I don’t remember anything other than people exploring various authors/philosophies/traditions which all christians do at various times when we have questions about things. that said, i didn’t read a lot of the material so i can’t really speak to what is there the way you have with confidence. i also haven’t met the authors so i don’t know if their agenda was simply that – asking questions and exploring as we all do from time to time in life – or if it was something else. i don’t know them personally so i don’t know their beliefs.

    in the bible god used people of all kinds to do his work, including those who weren’t on track theologically like balaam, babylon to teach israel, etc. most of us have theological views that probably don’t line up perfectly with the truth about any number of points, but god uses us anyway to effect his purposes whether he endorses it or not. my guess is that in any public situation like this, a lot of people piling on in twitter or whatever aren’t even christians by anyone’s definition including their own, but god may be using their observations to effect his purposes anyway.*/

    flipper999 – whatever info he was talking about would be there. people can decide for themselves.

    some of the twitters and comments in blogs and even “main blog pages” about this whole thing have been really over the top and causing a loss of credibiility as im-so-ronery said.


    • I mean, this was nearly 10 years ago – I unfortunately can’t recite specifics word for word and can’t find them in the Internet Archives. But that link does not allow you to browse all their posts, it would have had to scan it. So you only get a small subset, and attempting to browse today leads to a ‘this blog is private’ page. As I said, I very much remember a couple posts from Ryan that called Jesus’s claim to divinity into question. Whether he was just writing a synopsis or not, I don’t know – didn’t sound like it to me, it read more like a “look what I just discovered in my studies”. But he and Scott were not kicked out of Harvest for starting TED blog, Ryan was asked to leave due to his inability to stick to a Bible based teaching curriculum. I don’t have reason to doubt that based on his ramblings on the bloodstainedink blog. He went on to creating TED and here we are. I’m not attacking TED, I’m just saying Ryan and Scott don’t reach my litmus test for being a Christian – of which there’s only one simple thing: Jesus saves. So I do cringe when I read comments holding them to a high Christian esteem – just like I cringe on comments about how people that still attend Harvest are demon possessed. I cringe at a lot actually, on both sides. Everything about this subject is just so cringey.


  11. another important thing is that the blog goes back 7 or 8 years so to be fair, something someone wrote that long ago may not be something they ascribe to today. that’s something we all need to remember. the internet “doesn’t play fair” in that regard – someone finds a video clip or a blog entry from a while ago that doesn’t reflect their views today and people get unfairly painted with a brush that doesn’t even represent them anymore


  12. Im-so-ronery

    i see what you’re saying. i know we’re not supposed to be timid, but i always struggle with what to do when we don’t know someone’s motivation. did they remove things because they changed their mind/views? did they remove them to hide them? flipper makes an important observation too – since that evidence is gone, it becomes taking someone’s word for it that it was there in the first place. obviously i’m not saying you’re making it up, but i also see his point. anyway, thanks for chiming in and trying to keep people accountable on all sides.


  13. im-so-ronery

    that all said, i think this thread is important because of the point you brought up about censoring comments. ironically that’s kind of what started this whole thing in the first place – people say the church wasn’t sharing all the information (about any number of things) with their church attenders and yet (some of) the blogs that are bringing those very things to light may not be sharing all the information that could ‘lessen the blow’ in some cases. not sure what to think about that


    • I really like Julie Roys and her stuff – it’s all real solid Biblical material on her blog. It’s sad that I can’t comment there when someone gets a little nutty in the comments. But it is what it is, I wasn’t trying to sway anyone away from the issues at hand here, just pointing out the narrative is getting a little wild when North Koreans are brought into the conversation. And my TED stuff is the same as Mancow criticism. Like it’s sad people forget who Mancow is and are holding him up in a good light. It’s friggin Mancow. I find it hilarious that James hung out with him, and the instant that Mancow sees an opportunity to take advantage of the publicity, he does as Mancow do. NOT THAT THERE’S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT. It’s just that pro-Mancow comments make me cringe too.


  14. Oh, and yes Im-So-Ronery– I am a recovering Harvest Cult Member — that’s right you heard me– it took a while for the Lord to make me realize my pride was preventing me from acknowledging that I was a serially abused and deceived member of Harvest. I served sacrificially (every week), I gave sacrificially (til it really hurt), I worked sacrificially (extreme hours on staff to the detriment of my family). I thought I was working for the Lord–in fact I was working for James and the Harvest Machine. Thankfully, we serve a merciful and understanding God and he counted my efforts in the spirit with which they were given–to him.

    If you go through the top 13 traits of a Cult –Harvest Bible Chapel fits each and every one (source cult checklist) I have tried to give examples as best as I can.

    1. The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
    ‪ Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

    Harvest: Look at James’s top henchmen, selected managerial/pastoral staff, and faux elders signing “unquestioning allegiance and support letters” not to mention the numerous members that ignore the preponderance of evidence of James’s disqualification as an elder.

    2. ‪ Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s

    Harvest: behavioral conditioning (cheer and clap while you tithe) chanting, rock concert propoganda music “We’re United!!”, denunciation sessions (church-splaining), and twisted spiritual counseling./manipulation from the pulpit.

    3. ‪ The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry. Leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

    Harvest: “Choose to Sin, Choose to Suffer” “Act Like Men” — Act Like Men Palooza 2017 (

    Personal experience at an Act Like Men Indoctrination Sunday session: Was seated at a round table with various Harvest members and a table leader. Table leader had been coached on how to handle the discussion–in this case dissension and criticism of the church. We were told to pray for unity and confess to the men around the table any and all times we had harbored critical thoughts or ill feelings about the staff, Pastor James, and the Church. Obviously after a shocked moment, everyone bowed their heads and prayed — anyone stupid enough to confess dissension or ill thoughts against the church I’m assuming was carefully noted on a list by the table leader for subsequent “re-education” and “pastoral care.”

    4.‪ The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

    Harvest: In James’s case anointed as a speaker for God–always reinforced by various underling pastors at sermons end “Aren’t we blessed to have such an wonderful and gifted pastor to teach us? Let’s hear an Amen and show our appreciation for Pastor James … clap clap clap,

    5.‪ The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

    Harvest: uh Lawsuit anyone against TED, Julie Roys, ECCU? Also, victim mentality continually expressed from the Harvest Pulpit as “spiritual warfare” “us vs the fallen world” “Satan is marshaling oppressive forces against us” “It is good to suffer for Christ” “I am proud to be suffering for Christ from this oppression backlash on the Seacrest Firing, members asking tough questions on HBF/HBC/WITW mis-management of funds, questions on alleged Harvest spiritual and sexual abuse cover up, elder and staff mis-governance”

    6. ‪ The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

    Harvest: James was not accountable to anyone except himself–the only way to remove him via the church governance/constitution was if he voted for himself to leave. James also allegedly had (and I believe) undo influence in Kane County (politicians/police/city council/restaurants), –so ECCU (Harvest’s bank) motioned successfully to move the lawsuit against them to a Northern District outside of James’s influence.

    7.‪ The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members’ participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities.

    Closer Campaign Anyone–Harvest said that Children’s Ministry needed space so they moved the entire Childrens Ministry out of a comfortable spacious location in the East side of the Elgin office building to the Worship Center’s Pre-school rooms so that Harvest parents would feel the pain of long lines and checkouts. This was a blatant attempt to manipulate parents with children into giving to the Closer Campaign to alleviate the “space” issues when in fact they had plenty of space. Where was that Closer money really going to go? Who is now using that space that was vacated by Children’s Ministry? Can’t be Walk in the Word–they fired almost everyone. Don’t think its the School, many parents are yanking their kids out as soon as the semester is over. Many questions on this one.

    8.‪ The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

    Harvest: Act-Like-Men pink T-Shirts for men who were late to events….. small group indoctrination “believe the best in someone” “no church is perfect” “take the log out of your eye” …secret “leadership” small groups to identify future faux “Elders” (yes men)

    ‪9. Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

    Harvest: Been there-done that myself–distanced myself from unbelievers and undesirables per James’s preaching. Harvest Members are encouraged from the pulpit to only keep company with “good influencers” James has preached may times about the company you keep. Funny, the Lord hung out with tax collectors, prostitutes, and lepers.

    ‪10. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

    Harvest: if you talk to Harvesters, they are preoccupied with telling people about Harvest and how much they love their church – no mention of Jesus or the Lord.

    11.‪ The group is preoccupied with making money.

    Harvest: Vertical Church Band/Worship, Harvest Camp, WITW (oops scratch that they’ve gone digital), Deer Herd, Merchandise, Books, Much More conference–where they had encouraged women to not put their identity in shopping/vanity in 2017 but then promoted massive amount of trinkets and trash and “Much More” merchandise for sale in Harvest’s lobby during the 2018 event

    ‪12. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

    Harvest: Act-Like-Men indoctrination sessions every quarter, Act-Like-Men summer camp–mud wrestling, tribal idols/tribal rituals/tribal cat calls/tribal leather vests with patches, big phallic Asheroth symbol totem at Harvest Camp–go check out the Act like Men Palooza 2017 and 2018 youtube videos– i(

    ‪ 13. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
    ‪ The most loyal members (the true believers) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

    Harvest: Just see all the posts of PTSD Harvest members that are struggling to leave because all their friends are members and all their Children’s friends are at HCA. Many Harvest Members only have friends from Harvest since they were encouraged to cut off existing friendships of undesirables once they became members

    So in closing, Im-So-Ronery, please stop commenting on people and things you know nothing about. Your arguments lack impact because they are based on inaccurate and unsubstantiated information.
    You have admitted yourself that you are not a Harvest member so you by default cannot have perspective on specific Harvest actions and activities so how can you say that everyone commenting on this blog is just throwing around hyperbole? Maybe some of the comments are valid and true.

    You have just thrown out a bunch of accusations against TED (Apostate!) but have provided no proof in an effort, in my opinion, to cast aspersions on the godly men and women who are trying to be obedient to the Lord in shining light onto darkness and revealing the truth. Why don’t you try to pray for the TED authors if you truly believe they are apostates rather than trying to execute on your campaign of discrediting them?

    In truth and grace.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Flip my friend, you seem to have come unhinged. So much anger. Would it be better if I don’t call them apostates, but rather, just wacky dudes? Maybe their mindsets have evolved and they accept Jesus as the solo path to heaven. I dunno, I frankly don’t care. It sure looks like Ryan goes to a Catholic church, based not only on his views about scripture (his interpretive analyses seem to suggest he thinks the Bible isn’t inerrant), but also because he had a Vimeo account that showed his son being baptized by what looks like a bishop – it also showed a pic of a Catholic church. So if my views aren’t clear, I don’t think Catholics have much weight to push around when criticizing Evangelical churches. Catholics do not believe that Jesus is the only thing needed to get to heaven – gotta have them good works too. They don’t think the Bible is the only Word of God – the pope gets to claim the same status there. Anyway, there was a link posted earlier, it’s not a full collection of what he authored but there’s enough there to bore you for a few hours.

      Interestingly, a lot of what Ryan would write about involved interpreting Biblical texts in a very social justice way. Now, this may take us into the weeds a little bit, but he tied that stuff to politics and how Jesus was a political figure. My main issue with those stances when I read them at the time is that there is only one political party that people associate with social justice causes…it’s the same party that kills unborn babies. My radar zones in on those types of commentaries and my mind files it away and remembers it, such as the case here. BEFORE YOU GET UNHINGED AGAIN – I don’t think Ryan is promoting planned parenthood. I just read some of his stuff 10 years ago, formed an opinion, and moved on. My honest critique of him and Scott (never having talked to them or meet them or anything) is that they feel they are theological experts, and know more about the Bible than Evangelicals because they themselves don’t adhere to a literal text. To them, the Bible is open for interpretation, and if you like big words, they made a blog and wrote a lot about it to show you. Except that you can’t access it anymore.

      Of course, that was 10 years ago…maybe they have new and improved views. Would it help you sleep at night if I told you I used to attend Harvest and left for the same reasons everyone else did? You seem to want to believe I’m a James apologist when I’ve just said countless times here that I’m just pointing out it hurts the cause to compare James to Kim Jong Un. People in other comment sections call out for burning Harvest down, call James a pussy, say everyone that works there is going to burn for eternity. This hyperbole is not good, it makes those that say things like that look like fools and fools lose credibility.


      • I’m so Ronery or whatever you made your point over and over and it just plains sucks! Sometimes to get the attention of people especially ignorant ones you use extreme comparisons. So big deal, but I do have to say the robotic nature of getting people saved smacks of a cult!

        Liked by 1 person

    • We left Harvest about a year ago because we moved. Judging by your post, you have been really hurt by some people at Harvest and I am sorry. However, some of your points are grasping at straws and I am literally dumbfounded as I read it because it seems like you and I went to two very different churches (for the most part). I attended Harvest for 15 years. Some of your points are accurate. Others just are not.

      I not only attended Harvest for 15 years but served faithfully for 13 of the 15 years as did my husband.

      13: absolutely not. We were never ever told to only socialize with Harvest members. Even before becoming small group leaders(3 years before we left), when we were part of other small groups and people brought up issues with family and friends we NEVER heard anyone give that advice. One of the small groups we were in was with one of the pastors and his wife.

      12: the current church we attend encourages us to attend activities. So did Harvest. We were never forced to. We were never pressured or guilt tripped into it.I actually missed a lot of events due to work and no one once said anything. (As I said, we were involved and people would ask if we were going to attend certain functions but when the answer was no it never went any further than that).

      11: yes they did bring up tihing quite frequently. As far as selling things…as a child I was a part of an Orthodox Church. They had a bookstore and would sell merchandise during events. I then grew up and went to many other churches and all would sell merchandise. The current church we attend, which is significantly smaller than Harvest, also does this. It’s not just Harvest.

      10: I was encouraged to witness and invite people to come to know Christ. Could it have been to increase numbers? Sure? I’ve been encouraged at other churches in my lifetime to do the same also

      9: I have dealt with 75% of my family and friends not being Christian. No one at Harvest ever told me to give up on them or to cut ties but rather to continue to love them. I’ve even met many times with a pastor about my very difficult atheist brother and he never told me to cut ties. However, The Bible, not James Macdonald, says bad company corrupts good character. There’s a reason. Who you hang out with will influence you. No one is saying ignore everyone except Christians but be careful of who you are close to, go for advice to, etc. Jesus “hung out” with those people for a reason. It wasn’t to be buddy buddy and do life with.

      8: never felt shamed except when I was rightfully and lovingly called out for sin during prayer time with small group of ladies in my small group that I chose to open up to.

      7: I have never been taught this

      6: he claims he is accountable. The elders are there but unfortunately they are spineless cowards that need to be removed also. This I agree with.

      5:this I agree with. They are refusing to acknowledge that they are wrong and instead are saying everyone is against them

      4: I’ve never seen James as a supreme being.however, by being a pastor he was held more accountable. As far as the comments about being blessed to have him as a pastor – I have heard MANY comments like that about other well known pastors. Heck, a visiting pastor said that about my current pastor, and my church is no where near the size of Harvest.

      3: I highly doubt that. My husband was a table leader and some men who were small group leaders but not very involved would literally email a Day in advance if they had a large enough group and ask if they can be table leaders and were told ok and that’s that. They were never told in advance what to say/do. I was a table leader for some activities. Same goes for me. I would NEVER dictate how anyone lived their life. The furthest I’d go is if someone close to me was clearly sinning and id lovingly point it out with the word of God. That’s it.

      2: Have you been to other churches? Many churches bring up the “God loves a cheerful giver” verse. I’ve heard songs that Harvest plays in other churches as well.

      1: I agree that not enough are questioning James and are too loyal to him. This is a problem that I noticed before we left Harvest.


  15. Pingback: Not All Churches are That Bad. The Cognitive Dissonance of Tim Allchin and a Response to a Blog Post at the Website of Biblical Counseling Center | Wondering Eagle

  16. People in other comment sections call out for burning Harvest down, call James a pussy, say everyone that works there is going to burn for eternity. This hyperbole is not good, it makes those that say things like that look like fools and fools lose credibility.

    Anger, Fear, Confusion These are all products of being spuritually abused.

    Spending the day correct spiritual abuse victims blog ethics and looking for all that’s wrong in the manner we oppose an evil org… What causes a decent humble random Christian to enter the fray in this manner?

    You know whay I think? You’re not so humble. You’re bordering on indecent and you are not random at all.

    Whats you name

    Liked by 1 person

    • Mkay, Imma gonna try to dumb it down a bit and then I’m out. I’m a very right-wing conservative person politically. I comment on a lot of conservative blogs out there, and like engaging in “normal people” discussions. Sometimes, the loonies make their way into the threads spewing racist nonsense or yelling about how we need to start taking up arms against democrats. My opinion is that those voices drown out the voices of reason, and make any neutral person reading those threads recoil and ignore the voices of reason trying to enact real change for the better of society.

      I haven’t had a chance to engage with the Christian blogs I follow that have picked up this Harvest story. After 5 years of no reporting, it came back to life and, thankfully, I think is making an impact on those that attend there and will lead to some real change. However, in the interest of how to best reach those people, I thought I’d make a statement about how maybe the rhetoric should be less hyperbolic because you’re winning the fight – no need to stoop so low and invalidate your points. And like it or not, you do invalidate your points when you make ridiculous comparisons or call for ridiculous things. Some of you disagree, which is fine and we move on. If the author here had left out the last bit about mass graves, I’d have probably just said ‘good on ya’ and moved to the next post.

      Anyway, most of you seem like normal folks that really care. A few of you need to take some reading comprehension classes. A voice of critical assessment of the tone does not a Harvest spy make. Getting all puffed up and accusatory for any mild disagreement in your comment section means you like to live in an echo-chamber, and I’ll leave you to it. And yes, commenting on the hyperbole is a mild disagreement – putting words in people’s mouths about how they are defending anyone or anything that goes on at Harvest is a problem with comprehension.


  17. Words Matter.

    Definitions Matter.

    a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

    a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.

    Harvest is a Cult. Might not have started that way. Might not have been the intention. But it is a Cult.

    I was duped. It is mostly my fault. The lies worked for a season.

    The scripture, not James, taught me all I needed to know.

    Bold Obedience to Scripture Alone is my new 5th pillar.

    Until James is fired and removed Harvest will remain cult.

    Other changes will be required to lay the brand flat and humble the masses.

    Until transparency rules and governance is reformed my brothers and sister at The Big House will struggle.

    As I publically call for resignstions from all the men who knew Pastor Paxton Singer was sexually exploiting student boys in his care but failed to warn the full membership, I continue to pray for my family of fellow christians, the harvest elders and pastors, the macdonald family, and James himself.

    No1 has more ability to inact God honoring change and spark true revival than James Macdonald. Not because he is super awesome, but because he has fallen so far in plain view of God’s people.

    Pray for James! That The Lord does a mighty work in him and brings him to submission “resignation” to The Holy Scriptures for the good of Christ’s Bride and the health of our beloved Christian community.

    Liked by 3 people

  18. “You have admitted yourself that you are not a Harvest member so you by default cannot have perspective on specific Harvest actions and activities so how can you say that everyone commenting on this blog is just throwing around hyperbole?”

    Hey Flipper – this statement alone undermines Julie Roys and this idiot blogger, David Bonner. They have NEVER attended Harvest – David is an atheist who just wants to tear down the evangelical church and Julie attends an Anglican church in Wheaton, IL – the haven for ultra-right wing “christian” churches. Why are you reacting so harshly to someone who is clearly speaking/writing calmly and with a sound demeanor like Ronery? This is a great example of the continued abuse that current Harvest members (or just people who don’t want to burn the whole thing down) are under – anytime someone speaks out in defense of Harvest they are attacked – led by the moron Ann Fredericks and others. You all are cyber bullies – on twitter last night some guy named Jeremy decided to defend Harvest and he was mocked, ridiculed and chastised to the point he removed his posts. I don’t blame him – he knew he couldn’t win this argument so why argue with children? Why did you all treat him that way? The reason most Harvest members don’t reply/comment or engage with the same 40-50 jerks is because you are fully ensconced in your echo chamber and cannot allow any alternatives – be it the truth or just an opinion from someone who is hurting. If James Engleman, Jessica Hackett, Ann Fredericks, Joe Misek or any of the other loud mouthed commentators would just chill out for a couple of days and stop the attacks – maybe brothers can speak to brothers who used to worship together and find common ground. Could you imagine if Engleman reached out to some of his friends in a calm manner and discussed his matters – but, we see his attack campaign and are disgusted with the vitriol. Maybe if you all knew the background of his “trusted source” – Rob Williams – you would take a moment to research him further. A guy who can’t keep a job, who apparently “counseled” the victims as a BIBLICAL COUNSELOR and has now become an informant to Julie and Engleman. How sick. Maybe if you all took a moment to actually research RT Maldaner and his lies. His crocodile tears of sitting in his car during his daughter’s graduation – all BS – he came to the school looking to cause trouble and promote his church after being told to stop and was asked to stop again. I was there. He is a liar and needs to be treated as such. He’s no better than your target, James. But, he fits your narrative and you’ll look past all that, right? All this animosity and throwing around the word cult – while sneering that we who are praying for change and that the church continues to operate are “drinking the kool-aid” is hurtful and not warranted. We love the church and the ministries of this church. We love the school and want to see it succeed – because our children are there – and because the Elgin school district sucks. But you on the outside want to see it burn down…why??? Because you were legitimately hurt in the past but your hatred for James is going to hurt innocent families. If you truly want to see change let the process and God work. You’ve done your part. It may not look exactly how you want it to look in the future, but hey, you’ve already moved on to another church. Investigate your current pastors and elders now. Leave Harvest attendees alone so we can cry, pray and hope our church moves forward.

    I know I’m going to get blasted by all of you who are filled with so much hate – but that’s why I’m putting this out there – to prove my point. You will deny that you are hateful, but for someone who has been reading a lot of your commentary, it is hate, plain and simple. You can’t stand someone who is calm and collected speak against your narrative. You only want followers of your cause and nothing short of that will suffice – so, the real question here is: who’s the cult here actually? How ironic…the reasons you hate James so much is what you are doing to those few who speak out against you. I feel so badly for those that are silent (which included me until now) – we have stood by while you all attacked and attacked and called us cultists – we are not. You don’t know me, but Jimmy did. If he knew who I was – I would hope he would understand where I’m coming from. He knows that I don’t hate him, but am saddened by his vitriol – especially having left so many friends at Harvest. And, no, Jimmy, I’m not going to meet you for coffee at Allen’s Corner. That’s the thing folks, you all attack us as if we are ghosts and anonymous, but we’re not. Give it a break. You’ve seen the fall of James – which some of you have been praying for. Congratulations. Now, please move on to investigate the evils in your new churches – because that is what people like you will do – take this guy Bonner as my #1 example – he can’t stay in a church for any period of time because he’s so angry and apparently smarter than everyone else. Or don’t. It doesn’t matter. My words don’t matter to you…because at the next piece of information that drops from Harvest, you all will be dancing and sneering and laughing, while we try to stand strong and pray to be able to move forward. You’re impossible to argue with, just like progressive liberals….or ultra-right wing conservatives. Anything in the middle doesn’t resonate with you and everything has to be shut down YOUR WAY.

    By the way, I agree that true and complete repentance needs to occur and that there were some serious, serious deficiencies in leadership, elder authority and James. I don’t deny it, I just want to see good people that truly love the Lord get a chance to work through these hard times, transparently with the congregation – however difficult that may be. Godspeed.


      • There you go. Do I really need to say anything else? Jimmy, can you not see David Bonner for what he is? I’m not “all-in” for Harvest – but David can’t even bring himself to acknowledge any of my points – all he can do is stoop down to the level of insult, again. This is the type of leader you all follow in your fight against James and Harvest. Congratulations. My heart breaks for you all that think this is the type of person you want to plant your flag with.

        Bear in mind, the character of not only this ‘blogger’ but also Ryan and Scott have been called out and challenged – but what was the first reply to that from Bonner and Ann – that WE’RE the cultists and kool-aid drinkers. Think about that. It’s sad. Bonner and Julie Roys would rather re-tweet or support known atheists in their campaign against Harvest than show an ounce of grace or support to those still at HBC – why? Because their agenda is to destroy it and damn all the mature, honest believers that just want to worship Christ with other people they love and trust. They put it under the label of ‘seeking truth’ but those are the moments when their true personality comes out. As you all call on us to be more discerning and suspicious of leadership at Harvest – I’m challenging you to do the same. Stop lurking in the comments sections of TED and twitter and question those that are “speaking” for you. You might be surprised at how you’ve been led astray.

        Also, might be good to start thinking how all this newfound notoriety for Julie is working out – seems like on her FB page, twitter page and blog she has some splashy information about her book. Wonder how book sales are going now that she’s raised her profile. Clearly afforded her enough to fly down to Naples and stalk people.


    • Make a Public statement on the cover up of the Paxton singer sex abuse that put children at risk and was buried by leadership and James engleman goes away.

      I don’t need Rob Williams RT or anyone else to see clearly that the church where children should be safe Has failed to inform parents that their children came in contact with an active sexual predator.

      It’s in the statements posted on your website.. It’s in the statements made by DCFS. Your elders are quick to confess that they didn’t properly fire a pastor. Yet a full year after Landon McDonald clearly understood that no campus was safe from Paxton singer and his sexual exploitation games you still have not Owned it

      What the h*** is wrong with you…

      Anonymous I am not. I’ve grown tired of looking at clear evidence of cover up and watching harvest leadership spin and laugh and Sue anyone that comes up against you..

      Sabbaticals discipline shortcomings it’s all garbage and none of it comes even close to addressing the most important failure.

      I realize Landon didn’t Sexually abuse anybody

      I realize Lockwood did not sexually abuse anyone

      I realize milhollin didn’t sexually abuse anybody

      But when these men found out there was a predator on the loose with access to children in and across all campuses you all Failed

      I don’t hate these men
      I don’t hate harvest
      I don’t hate James

      I hate sexual predators and those that cover for then! God help me!

      if you didn’t cover it up then make your case.

      Otherwise there’s nothing further for us to discuss


  19. I’m sorry I’m laughing about someone calling James the p word. I personally haven’t seen any type of that kind of fervor against James. I’ve seen closer words on that line directed towards the people who want or tell the truth. Different subject now.. back to the guy critiquing useing Kim as an example. I think it’s important to note North Korea became the way it is because Koms father learned from missionaries the idea of divinity and took Chrsitian principles and applied them to himself and made the people worship him and it’s been passed down


  20. Jay, Paul, Woody, Tony, Jason…Whoever you are…

    I am not trying to to close Harvest’s doors. I don’t hate Harvest. I don’t hate James.

    I hate Pedophiles and those that cover them up…God help me!

    Im working on it, and as part of it, I am calling for the Church I trusted with m Son, The Church I served security for, the Church that I called my home, the Church 2 miles from my House.. TO STAND UP AND OWN YOUR FAILURES NOW. INFORM THE COMMUNITY. DEAL WITH THOSE THAT COVERED THE CHILD SEXUAL EXPLOITATION UP.

    Who cares about the way you fired a pastor? Who cares about the way James funnels cash into his account? Who cares about the way people are treated when they are fired? Who cares about the fellowship debacle? ALL OF THOSE THINGS CAN BE HANDLED BY ADULTS WALKING DOWN THE STREET. All of those things can be adjusted and reworked by good men who remain.

    When children are sexually exploited by the Pastor that the Church has “ordained” as those boys spiritual authority I HAVE A LOUD MOUTH AND IM NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

    Read the letter to the select parents.. Read the letter to the basketball team.. Nothing about DCFS, SEX CRIME. Nothing!


    Stop with the vitriol comments and character assassination.

    Demand those who covered, minimized, under reported child sexual exploitation to resign and inform every email address HBC has on file.

    Stop wasting time

    You know I love you, whoever you are. Nothing will change that, brother


  21. The blog is a platform. Using it does not equate to a leader / follower relationship.

    Executive Pastor Landon has overseen the cover up of Child Sexual Exploitation by a youth pastor who targeted boys in his care.

    It is clear. It is not debatable. What are you doing about it “old friend that loves me but won’t call me”?


  22. Reconciliation begins when you own the failures that put children at risk and protected an accused pedophiles reputation. Until then we are at odds


  23. 381 Days since Harvest knew they had a Pastor Sexually Exploiting boys in his flock and across multiple campuses.

    Still waiting for Elders Statement on the cover up..

    381 days 381 days 381 days

    Maybe…Just maybe..The amount of time that has passed plays a part in the tenacity with which I’m approaching this.

    You can’t honestly side with leaders that fail this way and point your finger at my approach in calling out child endangerment..

    Or can you?

    Liked by 1 person

  24. James,

    We have to pray for “just another warrior.” It’s pretty obvious that he is desperately afraid for Harvest and just wants “his” church to be left alone. This is his choice. If he wants to support an organization that “covers in love” sexual predation and spiritual abuse by pastors, that is his choice. He is still a brother in Christ and we are called to treat him with kindness and compassion — as the Lord would want us to treat those he calls his own (however misguided).

    That being said, “just another warrior” has slandered or besmirched just about everyone on this blog, RT Maldanar, Julie Roys, David Bonner, TED, etc. Biblically, I am going to call him out for that.

    “You have admitted yourself that you are not a Harvest member so you by default cannot have perspective on specific Harvest actions and activities so how can you say that everyone commenting on this blog is just throwing around hyperbole?”
    Hey Flipper – this statement alone undermines Julie Roys and this idiot blogger, David Bonner. They have NEVER attended Harvest –”

    1. My statement does not undermine either Julie or David– Im-So-Ronery has admitted himself that he is only a casual Harvest Bible blog viewer and has never deeply interacted with anyone at Harvest.

    2. Julie and David have spent hundreds of hours talking with actual Harvest Bible Chapel, Harvest Bible Fellowship Members and ex Members of both organizations to carefully research material for their posts and articles. I’d say that makes them qualified to have an informed opinion.

    “Maybe if you all took a moment to actually research RT Maldaner and his lies. His crocodile tears of sitting in his car during his daughter’s graduation – all BS – he came to the school looking to cause trouble and promote his church after being told to stop and was asked to stop again. I was there. He is a liar and needs to be treated as such. ”

    I have done my research and spoken directly with RT (which “just another warrior” has not). Let’s unpack your statement with some of the context that you left out because your statement contains a direct excerpt from the narrative that the “Elders” at Harvest were fed by the XLT to disseminate through the general congregation.

    A. Talbot Behnken and his assistant Mike Simon accosted RT coming in to his daughter’s graduation and asked him to leave the building.
    B. After protesting, RT did as they asked and sat in his car.

    FACTS: RT has never tried to promote his church to “Harvest Members” in fact many corroborating witnesses at City of Joy Church have spoken about how RT was painstaking in his deference to not approaching Harvest Members in a biblical attempt to live at peace with Harvest. Since then, multiple wounded Harvest Members have actually reached out to him and he is spending himself now every day trying to help them heal.

    FACTS: This narrative that RT is a liar, looking to cause trouble, and promoting his Church to Harvest Members after being told to stop twice was created immediately after RT refused to sign the Harvest termination NDA.

    Elders at Harvest actually regurgitated the same exact verbiage/talking points two days after RT was accosted by Luke at on his last day as a Harvest Member at the end of Worship Service at Elgin and was vehemently called a liar in front of his 6yr old little girl Lily. I’m going to give the brother who informed me a pass on this one–he loves the Lord, he just got bad info from the Elders that was engineered to discredit and slander RT.

    FACTS: “he came to the school looking to cause trouble and promote his church after being told to stop and was asked to stop again. I was there. He is a liar and needs to be treated as such”

    OK so let me ask you a question “just another warrior” You were there when RT was confronted trying to attend his daughter’s graduation correct? That would make you either Talbott Behnken, Mike Simon, or a Liar (you were actually not there). Which one are you?

    The balance of your comments speaks for itself since it is laced full of insults, hate, and anger. Before you make accusations about people (David Bonner) being atheists, you should go ask them yourself.
    By the way, David Bonner is a Believer–struggling with the Evangelical scandals yes and yes struggling with the task of finding a good church –but never the less a Believer–how do I know? I reached out and asked him. He also shared with me the reason why he started this blog and what drives him–because when he was hurting and abused by his church, there was no one there he could reach out to for help in telling his story. He has behind the scenes, also tried to be the biblical peacemaker for hurt parties and the people who hurt them. Successfully so in some cases. But that is his story and the reconciled believers’ story to tell if they wish it. To me, his actions along this front are admirable even if it is never known outside his circle.

    I think you need to really take a step back and examine your own passion for your Church and if it is Biblical. Because any church that covers up Child sexual predation in the name of “protecting the flock” is not practicing Truth and that is not from God. You should be passionate about Jesus not a “Church”.

    Either way, “just another warrior” we will pray for you, James MacDonald, the Elders, and Harvest.

    In truth and love.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Flip, you’re a great example of someone that needs to attend “The Institute Of Kids That Can’t Read Good, And Want to Learn To Do Other Good Things Too…”

      I do not attend does not mean I never attended. For all you know, I planted the church, or many churches. Maybe I’ve attended 20 different ones since 2000, I do travel a lot. Maybe I left 10 years ago, maybe 20, maybe last week. Point is, I don’t attend now but I have an opinion about the jumping to conclusions game. Nothing I’ve said here requires me to be Harvest elite. It’s run of the mill stuff.

      I’d really suggest you and all other ex-Harvesters or Christian’s that are trying to fight a good fight tread carefully with the company you keep. A LOT of them want to destroy the church and couldn’t care less about Jesus. Doesn’t make what James did/does justifiable …but personally, I think less of Julie Roy’s these days in how she carried herself (specifically the censoring). She deleted a post today where she mocked prayer meetings and got called out on it. She’s falling into the same trap as many of you who can’t seem to keep that focus on Jesus. And I’ll start the countdown until Mancow starts crying about how he and he alone brought this all out to the public. Dude is a publicity whore and he does it as well as anyone that could land multiple radio gigs in large markets over the decades.

      Good luck to you and all the folks that really seem to be confused about who’s an ally, who’s an enemy, who’s trying to gain off the loss of so many good people. It not only makes me cringe, it’s overall just a very sad spectacle to observe. At least the Bible warns us of these things…


    • And if you can’t tell, I besmirched the TED authors and will be glad to keep doing so if you have any other questions about their ultimate goals. This all seems to be dwindling down and may lead to all MacDonalds just walking away with millions. Which of you keyboard warriors are going to go back to the church you left and lift it up and rebuild? Who is going to just continue with hardened hearts because it gets extra likes on the Internet? For the ones that are most vocal, I’m going with the 80/20 rule. 80% of you will continue the vitriol and hyperbole in attacking any Christian leader that falls slightly from your assessment of what that leader should be. Hoping that they acknowledge you in some weird come to Jesus scenario and you feel vindicated. James is going to leave a huge wake of destruction here and bloggers, Julie Roy’s, Mancow, are going to move onto the next story, dragging the same 40-50 cult followers (oh! I went there) with them to the next stop. Real people will be left abandoned and hurt and I honestly feel in my interactions here that the response would be “serves you right”.

      It makes me so ronery and ronery and sad!


    • James, I really dont feel like ruining my future job prospects via google search should I ever be looking for a job and the company sees my likes for thomas sowell and says no thanks. If we were going to the same church or knew each other in real life, I’d not hold back. But this is the internet and you don’t get extra points for doxing. I can 100% say I know no one here, given the names freely listed, and no one knows me. Lets keep it that way, cause frankly some of the people on the internet are very messed up and it behooves everyone to stay anonymous.


  25. “I do not attend does not mean I never attended. For all you know, I planted the church, or many churches. Maybe I’ve attended 20 different ones since 2000, I do travel a lot. Maybe I left 10 years ago, maybe 20, maybe last week. Point is, I don’t attend now but I have an opinion about the jumping to conclusions”

    Hide your truth and crack down on those who infer incorrectly. Is that proverbs?


    • It’s the internet, you must have some sort of major malfunction going on if your first point of contention with anonymous strangers on the internet is that they don’t provide you with proper identification. Do you push this ID requirement for everyone in threads you comment on or just those that you find threatening to your narrative? If this is your way of diminishing people’s points, it’s pretty weak.


  26. You took the time to ridicule someone for making some assumptions but remain unwilling to share the truth about yourself.

    Deception and lack of transparency is getting really old for those of us that have dealt with Harvest.

    U may be a random person. U may be HBC Leadership. That’s anonimity for ya.

    Liked by 1 person

    • That’s because that person says my opinion is invalidated due to his assumption that I have ZERO experience with Harvest. Am assumption made due to lack of being able to understand common English.


Comments are closed.