The Season of my Discontent: When the Evangelical Christians are Wrong, the Atheists are Correct, and the Neo-Calvinists Surprise Me; A Reflection on the Neo-Nazi Rally in my Home State of Virginia

A quick post that is a response to the Nazi rally that took place in Charlottesville, Virginia. Its time to speak up and condemn Nazism which has no place in the United States. Not now, and not ever. We didn’t fight Nazism in Europe in World War II only to have it spring up in the United States. The resurgence in the alt-right which Donald Trump exploited needs to be condemned. This is about the season of my discontent when regular evangelicals are wrong, and the atheists and Neo-Calvinists are correct. 

“Hope has returned to the hearts of scores of millions of men and women, and with that hope there burns the flame of anger against the brutal, corrupt invader … In a dozen famous ancient States now prostrate under the Nazi yoke, the masses of the people … await the hour of liberation … That hour will strike, and its solemn peal will proclaim that the night is past and that the dawn has come.”

Winston Churchill on Nazism to Congress on December 26, 1941 

“Nowadays we are assailed by a chorus of horrid threats. The Nazi government exudes through every neutral state inside information about the frightful vengeance they are going to wreak upon us, and they also bawl it around the world by their propaganda machinery. If words could kill, we shall be dead already.”

Winston Churchill in a broadcast to Great Britain in November 12, 1939 

This represents a turning point for the people of this country. We are determined to take our country back, we’re going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump, and that’s what we believed in, that’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back and that’s what we gotta do.”

David Duke on Donald Trump and Charlottesville

If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness,we lie and do not live out the truth.

1 John 1:6 NIV

Did we fight Hitler so that Nazism can exist in the United States? 

When I was growing up in Fresno, California one of the events I loved to attend was a Civil War re-enactment that would regularly be held at Kearney Park. They would re-enact Pickett’s charge or other battles from time to time. I loved Civil War re-enactments but in California they were different. It was a hobby and something that was fun. In time I eventually found myself in Virginia and something happened that jolted my thinking. Around Thanksgiving in 2006 I was outside Fredericksburg, Virginia and I saw a dark side to history. At at Thanksgiving Day parade I saw what I believe to be the United Daughters of the Confederacy pass out pictures of Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson. They also dispersed Confederate flags and people cheered. For me it was a moment of horror as I realized that for some people the Civil War never ended, and they were still fighting it. The reaction by many of that day changed my view on Civil War reenactment, especially in the south.  

This past weekend has been unbelievable for me. The activity in Charlottesville stunned and sickened me. If you have never been to Charlottesville, I would encourage you to go. Its the home of the University of Virginia, and one of the greatest minds in American history, Thomas Jefferson also resided in the area. Charlottesville is quaint, nice, and has some good places to eat. Its a slow town in many ways, but its a nice place to call home. That was shattered when I saw the Nazi’s march on Charlottesville. I couldn’t believe the pictures I was seeing. People marching with torches and proclaiming “Hail Trump!” and “Sieg Heil.” Is  this 2017 or was I looking at footage from the annual Nuremberg rally in the 1930’s? Against all this was the alt right of Richard Spencer and David Duke. They were proclaiming how Donald Trump was their man. I was watching and reading the news with horror when I saw a new aspect. On social media a person I know had family and friends who lived in the city of Charlottesville in fear and terror. I saw how one person described how their family was hiding in their house while Nazi’s were driving around waving shot guns out of their car up and down the street. I am sure I am going to hear more about this in the days to come. 

These past few months have been the season of my discontent. I am 43, and I have seen things in my life these past few months that I thought I would never see. In this season of discontent I have dealt with betrayal, and saw people drink Kool Aid. I have seen people defy common sense and others who can’t think outside a black and white construct. In this season of discontent I look at many people in different ways. I have held my tongue but after what took place here in Virginia I can no longer be silent. When someone I say hi to is writing on Facebook that his family is hiding in terror outside Washington, D.C in Charlottesville its time to just come out and say it. If you are silent on evil then you are enabling the problem. Child sex abuse is a problem, but its not the only problem in Christianity. So having said that let me get started. If this feels like a rant it will be because I need to get this off my chest. 

When the Evangelical Christians Are Wrong…

In my season of discontent I have seen where many Evangelical Christians are wrong on the issue of Donald Trump. I saw some people who protest a church because of child sex abuse issues cheer for Donald Trump on Facebook. They have dismissed the Access Hollywood tape and that left me scratching my head for a long time. Why is rape in a rogue church wrong but Donald Trump boasting of grabbing someone’s pussy fine? I also had another surprise that stunned me around the same time. I got to know some of the people of the SGM Survivors movement. I saw people who were outraged about sexual assault in Sovereign Grace Fairfax or Covenant Life Church  who explained away the Access Hollywood tape and throw their support behind Donald Trump. So the rape of a child from Sovereign Grace Fairfax or Covenant Life is evil, but Donald Trump boasting of grabbing someone’s pussy is absolutely fine. I wrestled with that for a couple of months before arriving at the following conclusion. Some people will never learn and live out their life going from cult to cult. They can’t practice discernment, and for some of the people I can’t save them from themselves. I am not mentioning names, you know who you are, and this post is letting you know how I feel. Here is a question that I believe is fair game. The SGM crowd has hired Susan Burke who cut her teeth on the issue of military rape. Go and ask Susan Burke if she thinks the issue of rape in the military is going to get better by having a commander in chief who boasts of sexual assault and grabbing someone’s pussy. 

Many Christians have stunned and sickened me these past few months. There has been no concern for those who serve in the military or those who take an oath to preserve and protect the Constitution of the United States. I really think that there are a lot of evangelicals who are deeply lost and don’t know what they believe or who they are. But in this season of discontent I have wept to know that I am not one of you. I am in the 19% who voted against Donald Trump. I no longer consider a lot of evangelicals my home. To those in the 19% I stand with you. There is another problem I am going to get into below. But we must remember we got into this mess in Charlottesville because many evangelicals can’t practice discernment, critical thinking skills and they are willing to sell out their Constitution and democracy for a fucking United States Supreme Court seat because all they can think about is one issue alone.  The Christians in Germany did the same thing when the Nazi’s were rising to power. They had resented the excess and immorality of Weimar and they thought the Nazis would make German society more “Christian.” In the process millions were killed. Last week I was in Montana and I was speaking with one of my old history professors. He told me that my German History professor had died, and I was saddened to hear that news. Father William Greytak was a gem and one of the best teachers I had in my life. I wish everyone had a Father Greytak. I still can recall him standing in class with his left index finger pointed up and saying, “The lesson of German history is that what happened in Germany can happen here. Its’ why you learn history to prevent it from occurring.” Father Greytak taught me well, and this post came about in part of his memory. How I wish all the evangelicals could have had a Father Greytak as a teacher. If they did I don’t think 81% would have voted and supported Donald Trump. 

Hemant Mehta on why he can’t support Donald Trump 

When the Atheists and Secular Humanists are Right…

In my season of discontent I learned something that deeply encouraged me. I learned that many of the atheists are right. Over the past few months I followed many on Twitter and saw a large number express their concern. I watched Hemant Mehta on Twitter along with Jase Heap of United Coalition of Reason, the Center for Inquiry, and so many other atheists and secular humanists reject Donald Trump and call him out. Some of them have a greater understanding of democracy and civics than many evangelical Christians. I have long had deep respect for the atheist movement even while I don’t consider myself one. But its led me to ask the following question…are many atheists and secular humanists as lost as many Christians portray them to be? When they call out someone who boasts of rape, while the evangelicals flock to vote and support that person, are secular humanists really lost? This next section is to those who are secular humanist who read me. 

I want to thank you for your opposition and being grounded in science. I want to thank you for your critical thinking skills and how you use them. I want to thank you for your involvement in protests and getting people to oppose Donald Trump. I want to thank you for taking a stand even when it is profoundly unpopular. I hope that you will continue to do so and that some of you will see the 19% like me who stood against Donald Trump and much of evangelicalism as your friends. There is much we can agree on, and much we shall agree on it. But to those of you who are secular humanist I want to say thank you. I deeply appreciate you. 

Collin Hansen at The Gospel Coalition 

Garrett Kell on Charlottesville 

When the Neo-Calvinists Surprise Me…

In my season of discontent I learned something that stunned me. You see when you set out on a journey for truth part of it is being willing to explore yourself and ask questions of yourself. When you seek out truth you have to seek it out internally as you have to find out who are you, and what you believe. In the process I learned that a good number of the Neo-Calvinists are opposed to Donald Trump. I deeply appreciate some of the conversations that I have had these past few months. Interacting with a few has helped me understand that some are not at all what others have written them out to be. They do not all follow lock step behind each other. There are some who are willing to break ranks and take different views. 

Over the past few months as this blog has grown and as I traveled I have come to know a few Neo-Calvinist pastors or individuals. One I have spoken to on the phone, while the other I have met while traveling. I am not going to mention either name but in a Starbucks one actually told me why he voted and supported Evan McMullin. He also said that he couldn’t support Trump. Part of being on a journey and finding yourself means listening to others and breaking out of your tribe. To this pastor I want to say thank you for your friendship, and for challenging me. Thank you for getting me thinking, I appreciate that quite a bit.  In the past 24 hours as I watched the horror play out in Charlottesville  I saw many Neo-Calvinists come to condemn it. A partial list includes Al Mohler, Denny Burke, Russell Moore, 9 Marks’ Garrett Kell, Collin Hansen, and Matt Smethurst. I have a couple of their tweets above. I am not into Neo-Calvinism at all, I am troubled by many parts of it; however in this area the Neo-Calvinists are correct. And I have to thank them for speaking out and calling out what took place in Charlottesville. So to Garrett Kell, Denny Burke, Russell Moore and more I want to say thank you for doing the right thing. 

Indiana Jones shows how a Nazi should be treated 

Where do Evangelical Christians Stand on Nazi Ideology? 

We have a major problem today in evangelical Christianity. The evangelical camp has largely split into two camps as I see it. One is the Neo-Calvinist camp and the other is the traditional, old style culture warriors that makes up the second camp. Many of the old style evangelicals and Baptists have attached themselves to Donald Trump, and become his strongest supporters. This camp contains deep problems and its engagement in politics is a major concern. The question that needs to be asked is where do you go if you don’t fit in either camp? That is part of the problem that exists today. 

Part of the reason why I am no longer posting at The Wartburg Watch is because I have run into this camp that hangs out there. The old style Baptists are very much opposed to Calvinism and at the same time have unhealthy views on politics and faith. Quite simply they can’t separate politics and faith at all. I deeply appreciate the work of John Fea who writes a very active blog called The Way of Improvement. John writes about this camp quite a bit. But as some of these old school style evangelicals are hard core Donald Trump supporters I have clashed with a few of them, and I have seen a couple go after Warren Throckmorton as well. That is sad as Warren is a blessing, how I wish we had many more Warren Throckmorton’s around.  

Now before I continue let me tell you what I was doing last week. I was up in Montana helping my father and listening and learning family history. I learned a lot of neat stuff about the 13th Governor of Montana who is John W. Bonner; who is also a part of my family. You can see a picture of John’s grave in Arlington National Cemetery here. With the new information I learned I would like to go into the archives of the Holocaust Memorial Museum and see if I can learn more about John.  John W. Bonner also was the Attorney General for Montana prior to World War II and he served in the United States Army during the conflict, John was one of the people involved in the liberation of Buchanwald and he helped collect evidence which was used at Nuremberg in prosecuting the Nazis for war crimes. I am proud to have that in my family history which makes what happened in Charlottesville all the more angering. 

And there is another factor that is all the more troubling. If you look at Donald Trumps’ statement he refused to call out the Nazis in name. Instead he cast the blame on the other side and included them in the statement. It became an epic fail, in that he couldn’t call out the Nazis to blame. Yet consider back in January when the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) issued the report that stated that Russia was involved in the interference of the 2016 presidential election. Donald Trump rejected that and went after the CIA and Intelligence Community and called them Nazis. So Donald Trump won’t call out the Nazis in Charlottesville for who they are, yet he will call the CIA and its employees Nazis just for doing their job and issuing a report that needed to be released. 

So after dealing with some of the readers at The Wartburg Watch here is my question to Dee Parsons and Deb Martin. In light of Charlottesville, where do the Deebs stand on Nazi ideology? Since Trump played to the alt right during his campaign and made them part of his base where do they stand? Are they a part of the 81% who strongly support Trump or are they like me and part of the 19% who reject him. What do the Deebs believe about readers who have embraced Trump and gone off the deep end? Is Nazism wrong? Did my great uncle make a mistake in liberating Buchenwald and collecting evidence for Nuremburg? The alt right movement has been resurgent in Europe as well, where do the Deebs stand on the Populist movement of Poland and Hungary which is a threat to democracy as well. Was Eisenhower wrong in destroying Nazi, Germany and having the beaches at Normandy stormed on June 6, 1944? These are questions that I have to pose. I can’t stay silent on this topic. Remember it was the ordinary Germans who voted and supported the National Socialists. So after some of the run ins I have with some of The Wartburg Watch readers who are part of the 81% who support Trump, where does Dee Parsons and Deb Martin stand? Or when people were rioting in Charlottesvile, in one of the largest Nazi demonstrations in decades were the Deebs turned into Fox News and hearing about Hillary Clinton’s 33,000 missing emails?  That is my question that I ask with all sincerity. 

Will Evangelical Christians Admit they Made a Mistake? Or will they Act Like C.J. Mahaney and Mark Driscoll and Run? 

Now here is my other prediction as well. When this mess with Donald Trump is over many of the evangelicals who support them won’t own up and admit they made a mistake. They won’t own it and say “I was wrong.” They won’t say that they errored and that they made a mistake. Many of the evangelicals are going to act like they did nothing wrong. They are going to act like C.J. Mahaney and Mark Driscoll and run from their mistakes and leave many people behind confused and hurt. The fact that so many people won’t take the right course of action will validate the atheists who claim that Christianity is corrupt. It will leave those who are in the 20% who rejected Trump feeling homeless and the greatest harm will be the Christian faith. Some of the people I wrote above will do that to me as well. For those that are in the 20% who reject Trump, those families who were torn apart by SGM will use the same techniques against them as that is all they know, and they will reject them. Its a major problem. Some of the readers from The Wartburg Watch who I clashed with on Twitter or elsewhere who talk about Mark Driscoll fleeing will do the exact same thing as Mark Driscoll themselves. I honestly hope I am wrong, and that I will be proven incorrect.  

There is No Place in the United States for Nazism…

I would like to promote a couple of articles that pertain to the Neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. The first is in the Washington PostAfter Charlottesville, will white pastors finally take racism seriously?  The second article I think is also in order and was written by Martin Luther King Jr. Its actually addressed at the whites and is calledMartin Luther King Jr.’s ‘Letter From Birmingham Jail’ This will be blunt, and this will be terse. But quite simply Nazism doesn’t belong in the United States. Not in my grand-parents lifetime, nor my parents, nor mine. It is inconsistent with the principles ordained in the Constitution or the democracy which is a gem and unique in the world. Did you know how many people emigrate and want to be a part of the United States? This is a unique and amazing country and Nazism is a threat to it. For everyone who doesn’t know what to think about Nazism go to the Holocaust Museum here in D.C. Heck I will walk through it with you and I can teach you German history and together we can learn. There is no neutrality when it comes to Nazism, and it is evil. Why did we fight World War II if we are going to put someone in office who is silent on the alt-right threat? Why are we having a resurgence in Nazi ideology? Its because Donald Trump fanned the flames and appealed to violence during his campaign. I don’t think one can be a Christian and support someone who appeals to and his revered by the alt-right and the Neo-Nazis. And I know many people will not like this post, but some are speaking up. I noticed on Twitter and social media that Julie Anne Smith has spoken up, so has Nate Sparks. I am proud of them and would encourage them to continue. But others are silent and that is not acceptable. We didn’t destroy Nazism in Europe so it can pop up and rally in my backyard of Virginia. Some people need to do a lot of hard thinking, especially those who are bloggers on being silent. When the Neo-Calvinists and atheists condemn the Nazis that popped up in Virginia but the normal evangelicals stay silent on the topic well basically you are pissing on the graves of those who gave their lives in Europe in World War II. But join me in rejecting Nazism and let’s appeal to the better angels of people’s nature as Abraham Lincoln eloquently stated. It with that stated that I will leave you with a musical number from Captain America which I feel is in order.  

62 thoughts on “The Season of my Discontent: When the Evangelical Christians are Wrong, the Atheists are Correct, and the Neo-Calvinists Surprise Me; A Reflection on the Neo-Nazi Rally in my Home State of Virginia

  1. Dude, you need some serious psychological help. For all have sinned…except for you. I can’t stand self righteous people, and you are one. You bash every one who does not think like you do. Do you not remember the non-racists bashing skin heads back in the 80’s?

    Racism was REBORN again due to OBAMA, and all you can do is bash Trump.

    Eric Holder, Reverend(s), if you can call them that, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, and Obama and their mainstream media puppets bashed the white man every chance they got, and all you can do is to bash Trump.

    Those black men keep racism alive and well in America, and you blame Trump all because he wants ILLEGAL ALIENS OUT OF THE US, just as I do.

    You have sympathy for atheists? What an idiot you are. I’m sick of your diatribe.

    Is God going to be as sympathetic to atheists as you are? Will he let those atheists in the gate of heaven? I don’t think so…but what do you think?

    For all have sinned, right? How about you? What are your sins? Name them! Publicly.

    Tell us all of your sins so that you can bash Trump some more about an Access Hollywood Tape.

    Self righteousness, as you portray yourself, has no place in our Christian world.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Ed…I will always defend your right to free speech. I disagree with you often but I will never silence you. Its okay…speak your mind. You are free to do so and I know you will.


      • What is free speech? Your article suggests that you do not support free speech. I asked numerous questions, but they go unanswered, except to say that you disagree with me. My main question is, will God have as much sympathy as you do regarding atheists, and will God allow atheists in heaven. But you won’t answer that. You won’t answer what your sins are, either, acting like self righteous, just like that Pharisee that said, “Thank God I’m not like that!”, instead of beating your chest asking God to forgive you, a sinner.

        I think that God will show the atheists just how stupid that they are in their own science, just like God did with Job in asking Job, “Where were you when I…?”

        What is free speech to you?

        Why is it Work Place Violence if a Muslim kills servicemen on a US Military base?

        The Obama administration would not say the words “Islamic Terrorism”, so as not to offend Muslims.

        Why is that? But we are supposed to condemn alt right, whatever that means, because they support Trump, not because they hate black people.

        That is my beef with you.


    • 1) Those black men keep racism alive and well in America, and you blame Trump all because he wants ILLEGAL ALIENS OUT OF THE US, just as I do.

      > It won’t just end with the illegal aliens. Because they are always more people to blame. And there are always so-called “parasites” in sociality. Because let’s say you want these illegal aliens out because they stole your jobs. By this logic you would also kick out all legit refugees. Also kick out all poor people, even if they are born in the US. Also kick out any disabled or mentally handicapped people. All “parasites” you would want to kick out. And those that you can’t kick out you would put into concentration camps.

      Nazi Germany also started their extermination small and slowly. They didn’t start exterminating the Jews in day #1. It really is a slippy slope. Once a country goes down the road and mentality of EXTERMINATING the WEAK there is no going back.

      You cannot prove to me that removing the weak from the sociality is LOVING your NEIGHBORS as yourself. Because the whole point of removing the weak is because you think they are a parasite to the sociality. That they are taking away your tax dollars. That they are taking away your jobs. etc. Jesus told us to feed the poor and visit the widows and orphans. Illegal aliens is just a label. If you are next to them you must love them and care for them, and eventually preach the Gospel of Christ to them. THIS is Christian. Removing the weak just because they are “parasites” that costs you time and money is SATANIC.

      2) You have sympathy for atheists? What an idiot you are. I’m sick of your diatribe.

      Is God going to be as sympathetic to atheists as you are? Will he let those atheists in the gate of heaven? I don’t think so…but what do you think?

      >Atheists goes to regular hell. That would indeed be terrible. But have more pity for a fake Christian. A fake Christians that knows about God, yet have no love and instead rejoice and delight in sinful hate and evil, will go to a much more condemning level of hell.

      Hence yes it is much better off to be an Atheist than a fake Christian. In the bible Jesus is rarely mad (if ever) at the Atheists who never believed. But he keep on getting mad at the fake believers. Guess who Jesus will punish more in hell.

      3) For all have sinned, right? How about you? What are your sins? Name them! Publicly.

      Tell us all of your sins so that you can bash Trump some more about an Access Hollywood Tape.

      >Trump is a non-believing sinners that is heading to hell, unless he repents. Christians should endure through his rule, but to actually obey his sinful ways is insane! When Trump tells a Christian to join the Nazi party, would a Christian really do it?

      All Dave is saying is that when Trump tells a Christian to join the Nazi party, DO NOT OBEY! So then why are you trying to shut Dave up by trying to point out the fact that Dave is a sinner? Of course Dave is a sinner! So are you and me. What is even your point? How does that even relate to the point? All pastors sin. Does that mean they are never ever capable of teaching anything or saying an opinion?

      All I can do is to warn you, and others like you, not be delight and rejoice in evil. You know what happens to fake Christians. So if you delight and rejoice in Nazism and Racism, you already know where you are going. All the

      Or am I wrong? Then tell me to my face that it is actually sinful to go against Nazism and Racism. So when I go AGAINST Nazism and Racism, it is ACTUALLY me that is delighting and rejoicing in evil. Yes twist everything! Come persecute the likes of us true believers. Call us traitors and put us true believers into concentration camps. False believers has always been killing the true prophets and then build their grave. (Matthew 23:29-36). They say they will not follow the sinful footsteps of their forefather’s mistakes. But when push comes to shove, they repeat the SAME HATRED and SELFISHNESS over and over again for thousands of years. Love will NEVER come to them, no matter what Jesus did for them. They enjoy evil too much to obey love. Why have sacrificial love when evil will profit them here on this earth? Their eternal destiny seems so far away so let’s worry about that when they are 100 years old.

      19 And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.”’ 20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you, and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’ 21 So is the one who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God.” (Luke 12:19-21)

      Repent repent repent! It is never too late to repent. Turn away from hatred and selfishness. Embrace love and selflessness.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. My second comment about your article:

    What GOOD will it do to TALK about it? What GOOD will condemning Neo Nazi’s do? Talk is cheap. What is your suggestion for ACTION?

    Deport the Nazi’s to Germany? What do you propose that we DO in ACTION?

    What will condemning it do? Will it make it go away?

    What preacher does not preach DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU?

    I don’t know any, but you want to blame the preachers for not speaking up? What do you want them to say that will change the course of our society?

    Do you want them to say, “REPENT FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!”?

    If that is what you want them to say, that statement can be towards your atheist buddies, too.


  3. I understand your frustration, being part of the #19percent

    It is a disorienting and discouraging experience to find yourself not at home amongst people with whom you would seem to share a common faith. It is difficult to feel like a black sheep in your own faith family just for trying to follow what you believe to be the truth.

    There are many working through this struggle, but our voices are mostly being drowned out in the midst of this great political/social shouting match where it seems like the loudest and most belligerent voices get the speaking platforms.

    I don’t pretend to have all, or even many, of the answers. I am trusting in God’s promise in John that the Spirit of Truth will guide us into all truth. I am trying to listen for that still small voice in this stormy, noisy, chaotic world. I am trying to be resolved enough to stand firm on what I believe to be truth, and humble enough to be open to God’s showing me where I am wrong. My hope is not in a president, or a politician, or a political party, or a talk show host, or a social media platform, or a church leader, or In any fallible person or group of people.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Eagle, thank you for a very good article. My ancestors were slave-holding southerners who fought for the Confederacy. My mother didn’t learn that “Damn Yankee” was actually two words until she got to college. But that kind of history does not have to lock us into to hate and bigotry. My parents didn’t pass it to me, and I have raised my own children free of it. We can and we must rise above the old narrow-minded focus on skin color and ethnicity.

    Eagle, I stand with you in fully rejecting the bigotry we saw in Charlottesville this weekend. I applaud the clergy that were there publicly standing up for equality and justice. I hope more religious leaders will add their voices in a condemnation of everything that group of KKK and Nazi bullies represent.

    (And ChapmanEd24’s comment is a good reminder of the sort of person I never want to be. Sheesh!)

    Liked by 1 person

    • Ubi,

      I’m not a racist. Let’s be clear. I grew up in the state of Washington…the OTHER Washington. I never experienced racism here what so ever. I was in the US Navy for many years with NUMEROUS races, including Filipino’s, Blacks, Hispanics, etc. And even in the US Navy, I never experienced any racism.

      So lets be clear about that.

      My issue is that, as YOU stated, you were taught at HOME. I never had to be taught to NOT be a racist. It was the furthest thing from my mind.

      But you want racism to be taught from the TOP DOWN, not from the grass roots.

      The South lost the Civil War, and there will ALWAYS be racists. You will never eradicate racism.

      So, what do we have here in this article? Eagle hates Trump. Eagle bashes Trump. Alt right voted for Trump, and he’s pissed about that.

      He seems to present here that if it were not for the Alt Right, then Trump would not be president.

      But how many Blacks and Hispanics and Women voted for Trump, too?

      How many EDUCATED voted Trump? And…for that matter, how many atheists voted Trump, too?

      Eagle wants to present that all of those people are VICTIMS of Trump, and only he and atheists get it.

      If Eagle was serious about racism, he would have bashed racists long ago in a topic that has nothing to do with Trump at all.

      Racists vote anyway. Who do you want racists to vote for?

      Besides, I made a point earlier that us non-racist white people have been FALSELY ACCUSED of being racists ever since Obama got into office JUST BECAUSE we disagreed with his policies.

      I am against racists. But that word has been REDEFINED by those who were OBAMA supporters, now Trump haters.

      I question the motives of Eagle here. Is he really against racism, or just Trump?

      Let’s see him put his money where his mouth is on the next election against the racists who vote for WHOEVER is running.

      Ed Chapman


      • You protest that you are not a racist. But the KKK and Neo-Nazis are strong supporters of the “President for Now”, so if you are also a strong supporter, that does not put you in good company.

        From my conversations with Eagle, I have the sense that he has a deep concern for the safety and well-being of human beings, especially the poor, the abused, and the disadvantaged. This is right in line with the christianity I learned as a child, about “love thy neighbor, feed the poor, clothe the naked, care for the sick.” The current far-right positions of “screw the poor, discriminate against the gays, tax cuts for the rich, political power for us” do not strike me as christian at all, regardless of how much posturing and tribal religious noise these people make. I do not often meet christians who are honestly trying to live the way Jesus told them they should, but as far as I can tell Eagle is making a real effort.

        Liked by 1 person

      • I totally disagree with your assessment about my “good company”. As I have said, I am a US Navy Vet for many years.

        Active Duty Military folks from MY era have a totally different mindset about the world than civilians of THIS generation.

        I joined under the Ronald Reagan First Term era, and we believe much differently about things than you people do.

        God and Country was NOT a racist thing back when I was in the military.

        It is YOUR generation of thinking that falsely LABELS people like me as a racist because I support Trump.

        And, I learned as a kid that “love thy neighbor, feed the poor, clothe the naked, care for the sick” are INDIVIDUAL responsibilities, not governmental responsibilities. Jesus was never told Caesar to feed the poor. He told YOU to do that.

        And with you making it a government responsibility, it has become distorted as an entitlement, a hand out, rather than a hand up, and our citizens now EXPECT free stuff, not working for it.

        That isn’t what America is. America is about WORKING for your own life and that of your family, and if there is someone in need, it is YOUR responsibility when YOU see someone in need.

        You can’t tell the needy that you gave at the office already, or that you paid your taxes already.

        And that is the reason that I am NOT a liberal, let alone a bleeding heart one.

        I am a RIGHT WING republican NOT because of racism, and I don’t care if YOU and Eagle put me in the company of racists, because that is YOUR problem, not mine. That is YOUR false accusation, not my acknowledging it. That is lies being told about me based on YOUR interpretations, not mine.

        I speak for myself, and I decide for myself, and I think for myself. So I don’t need false accusations from atheists telling me that I don’t think for myself, just so you know.



      • I didn’t hear kindness or compassion in any of that.

        You are supporting the same politicians that the angry neo-Nazi terrorists in Charlottesville support. I don’t care what your history is, or what your original reasons for supporting your party are. The current administration encouraged xenophobia and violence during the campaign, and now the violent xenophobes feel they have been empowered to bully the rest of us. If that’s not what you believe your party stands for, or should stand for, then speak up! Not to me. To your elected representatives, and your candidates. Tell them that it’s not OK for the GOP to be the party of the KKK and the Nazis.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Ubi,

        When MY people get falsely accused of being racists, I’m not about being all nice. I have a MILITARY mindset, and I’m sick and tired of people like Eagle and you who think PEACE THRU sending flowers (appeasement) , as if that is going to solve the problem.

        I think PEACE THRU STRENGTH, which means, NOT BEING SO NICE.

        Have you ever heard the term, “DON’T FUCK WITH US!”

        And, you spread lies about us being all of the phobia’s that you falsely claim against us, too.

        It’s all lies upon lies that you people call us.

        I don’t want my children to be raised in YOUR interpretation of FREEDOM, because YOUR freedom is a FREE-FOR-ALL, WHICH is not the freedom that OUR founding fathers had in mind. You people have distorted that freedom that definition of what freedom was supposed to be all about, and I am pissed about that, just as much as Eagle is pissed about his diatribe.

        And, lastly, I don’t need to speak up. We don’t have racism where I am. That’s YOUR problem. I’m not from the south, and I am not from Washington DC area, either.

        I do need to speak up about YOUR kind lying about my kind, however.


      • I am not a “you people”. I am not a “your kind”. I am a person. I have a spouse, two children, three birds and a cat. I have a job, a mortgage, and participate in a local arts group. It’s really easy to be unfair to people when you lump them into one bunch of “them”. But there’s not a unified “them”, there’s only a bunch of individuals, trying to get along as best they can. And this individual doesn’t like the authoritarian attitudes and bullying that are coming from our current administration.

        I have told no lies about you, nor called you a racist, nor made any assumptions about you, but simply responded to what you wrote here. (And before you claim that you don’t have any racism where you are, I suggest that you ask people from racial minorities in your area whether that’s true. I suspect it isn’t.)

        Liked by 1 person

      • There ya go again, Ubi,

        Falsely accusing US as being authoritarians and bullies. If you agree with Eagle’s stance, there is indeed an US and a THEM.

        “WE PEOPLE” do not see Trump as an authoritarian as “YOU PEOPLE” do. Law and Order is also in the military, although Mr. Eagle disagrees that the US Military is governed by the laws of the UCMJ.

        Making America Great Again has nothing to do with YOUR interpretations of racism that you accuse religious people of the Christian faith as endorsing. We do not endorse what you accuse.

        People are told to obey the law, and there is much lawlessness going on in America, and YOU PEOPLE endorse it. Violence has come from YOUR SIDE, not our side.

        College’s endorse violence when they don’t get their way when CONSERVATIVE speakers are invited to speak. YOUR people do not believe in authentic free speech. It’s only free speech if YOU first approve of it being free speech by your definition of it.

        Believe it or not, racists have an American Constitutional right to protest.

        Left Wing Violent Thugs robbing local community stores, and your people call it protesting, when it is looting, stealing from others of their hard work, breaking glass, stealing big screen TV’s, beer, cigarettes, setting cars on fire…that’s all from YOUR side, not ours.

        Is violence against the law, or not? It does not matter what people believe, or don’t believe. It does not matter if there are racists in America. Just so that they do not harm other people. Isn’t that what you people tell WE PEOPLE when it comes to your version of morality, such as pot smoking, gay marriage, etc. anyway? Think and do what you want, just so it does not hurt anyone?

        Is it not already against the law to not plow people down with a car? If you kill someone, is that not already against the law?

        Why is this stuff not already taught in school, or at home? Why does the president have to give a civics lesson on national TV for you people to be satisfied? Civics is supposed to be taught in schools. Love Thy Neighbor is supposed to be taught at home.

        I suppose that you did not already know that WOMEN AND BLACKS SUPPORT TRUMP???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Why is that, if what you say is true about Trump? Why would a black man and woman support Trump if he is all for white supremacists? Why are college educated people, also of color, for Trump as well? Uncle Tom???????????????????

        Your side accused us of being racists years ago when we disagreed with Obama, so don’t tell me how much you try to get along with us.

        Black Thugs murder cops, and you give the blacks a free pass, and they HATE their neighbors so much that they make sure that CHILDREN in school gets their drugs that they will kill others for.

        Lawlessness was started from YOUR PEOPLE…not mine.


      • Oh, and regarding your racist last sentence?????? We have MANY MANY races in my neighborhood…or should I say, HOOD to satisfy your compassion???

        We have an abundance of liberals here, but we all get along, because we all LOVE this area of the United States. Protests we have, but none of it has to do with racism. It’s usually about money, aka, World Trade.


      • Ed if you think I am a flaming liberal you would be mistaken. And while I thank you for your service in the USN one of the challenges is that while some people get out of the military physically, some never get out mentally. My military friends and I discuss this from time to time.


      • Would Reagan fit your definition of a conservative? My challenge to you is watch Reagan’s speech on Youtube when he re-dedicated the Statue of Liberty in 1986 and compare that with the GOP rhetoric of today. Even Reagan would be homeless politically.

        Liked by 1 person

      • I disagree with your stance on Reagan. Many liberals and republicans were against Reagan. That Baptist peanut farmer was not assertive enough for me. Reagan had our enemies fearing us, he would not appease our enemies. I want a STRONG leader, not a weak one. Trump is not weak. But if he pisses you off…GOOD. Reagan pissed a lot of people off, too. But not us in the military. WE SUPPORTED REAGAN because he supported us.


      • Why don’t you reveal your deepest darkest sins, Wondering? Huh? In other words, take out that freaking plank out of your own eye. YOU have sinned, too, so don’t act so freaking innocent. Your self righteousness does not impress me one bit.

        Furthermore, Reagan was indeed bashed by Christians for being DIVORCED, accusing him of being an adulterer for being remarried.

        So stop with your Trump bashing…it’s getting really old. Otherwise, reveal your deepest darkest evil thoughts, because we all have them, for all have sinned, and if you broke just one law, you are just as doomed as if you broke them all.

        Your self righteousness is evil.


      • Ed you would be surprised to know that I am a firm believer in the Afghanistan War. We can’t afford to let Afghanistan became a failed state otherwise it will become a terrorist training ground. So I am not a peacenik as you describe. Please be considerate.

        Liked by 1 person

      • And I am a firm believer in the Iraq war, Bush 2 finished the job that his dad left undone. Yes, the ends justified the means. But Obama left the door open for Isis to form, and called it a JV Team. Was that responsible for a president, or was he being sympathetic to his Islamic relatives?


      • Obama’s mistake was leaving Iraq too soon. But Ed I am not here to debate foreign policy with you. Please lets not go down that path. That is not what this blog is about. Besides I can’t compete with some of the foreign policy blogs from John Hopkins or Georgetown.


      • Agreed…the violence in Charlottesville is an extension of Trump’s culture. He is stirring the pot and creating the violence. Trump appeals to the worst aspects of a person. That is why I opposed him. He is a demagogue. If Trump were not in power we would not be having some of these issues. Agree with 110% Ubi.

        Liked by 1 person

      • You are so wrong Eagle, it isn’t even funny. Trump did NOT endorse, or invite, or stir the pot for violence. Anarchists do not need encouragement to be violent. They do that out of the evil of their own hearts.

        Restoring LAW AND ORDER has been Trump’s stance thru out his campaign.


    • Chapman my brother, listen. Let’s say you have been faithfully going to the same church under the same pastor for years. That pastor looks like a good person. And then suddenly you find out that pastor enjoys grabbing random women by their p*ssy. And that pastor hates black people and wants to exterminate them. And this pastor’s views are supported by all the elders. Will you speak up or will you not speak up against that pastor and all the elders?

      You have to understand that speaking up against the pastor is not equal to going against the church. In fact it is because you love the church that you must speak up against the evil going on inside the church. That’s the whole point of loving discipline. We discipline people doing evil, in hope that they turn around. This is true love.

      So similar to this, yes you can support Republicans all your life. You can agree with many of the good things they do. But when Republicans starts supporting the views of Nazi’s, you have to stand up against this evil.

      This standing up does NOT mean that you are no longer Republican. It does NOT mean that you are now suddenly against everything the Republicans has stood for. But every single time the Republican sins, you as a Christian must stand against these sins. Because God is your master, NOT the Republican party. You must submit and obey God well before your loyalty to the Republican party. In fact it is because you LOVE the Republican party that you discipline it. This is true love, that you try to turn your beloved Republican party away from sin and toward repentance.

      You said that loving your neighbours is a local thing. That much is true. But does this mean that when the Nazi government approve a law the round up all the Jews, you should say nothing? So when the Nazi’s rounds up your minority neighbours to take them to be gassed to death, will you stand up again the Nazi troops? Will you block those Nazi soldiers from taking your neighbour? I tell you the truth. If you aren’t willing to stand up for the minority people when it is safe for you to do so, you will definitely not stand up to the Nazi troops with machine guns. You let sin go undisciplined because it doesn’t affect you. And that will eventually become your habit. When that is your habit, you will not stand up against sins when it might cost you your very life.

      That’s why I told you that you cannot convince me that supporting Nazism is loving your neighbors as yourself. Even just not speaking up against Nazism is already hating your minority neighbours, because when you see evil and do nothing, your silence approves of the sin. It is like seeing a helpless woman getting robbed by an unarmed person and you do nothing about it. Next time you see another woman getting attacked by an armed person, will you really stand up against that armed person? Sacrificial love is too costly for you, so you just stop loving. Hence you listen to the sinful world and stopped listening to the love of God.

      You might only be one person, against million of the people in the Republican party. But every time you stand up for righteousness against sins inside the Republican party, and try to convince other party members to your righteous and loving views, you are disciplining the Republican party.

      The same thing for anyone that supports the Democratic Party. Be loyal to God before men.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. Wow, Eagle, lots to think about in your post.

    I am aware (and horrified) of the evangelical support for Trump, in spite of evangelicals knowing what he was before they voted for him. The way I heard it best expressed was by a commenter on Imonk named ‘Johan’ who wrote this:
    “” . . . from now on the US will to me and many europeans be the country that allowed Trump to be in office, the country that voted for a known bully and misogynist, a liar and a narcisist – because americans wanted to make america great again” ”

    And then, there is this concern: “Part of the reason why I am no longer posting at The Wartburg Watch is because I have run into this camp that hangs out there.”
    I know about some of these people because I came across this ‘anonymous’ posting over on Istoria blog where I had been attempting to encourage some people to reconcile. Warning, this is ugly stuff:
    “Anonymous said…
    Sun Jul 30, 12:31:00 PM 2017
    Anonymous said…
    “I think the comment section at Wartburg Watch still retains a liberal flavor (which is a bit problematic, if, like me, you are right wing) and possibly also a little of the “Nicey Nice” culture, where you don’t feel as though you can quite come out plainly and say what you mean and really think.
    However, I think with Velour and Christiane out of the picture, posting there will be better or easier.
    (And I do hope Dee keeps her word from that blog post a few days ago and fills us in later in a public post about what happened there.””

    Now, Eagle, I do not blame Dee or Deb for any of this ‘camp’ because both Dee and Deb have tried to help some of these people who have been victims of church abuses and the Deebs are not destructive people, no. But some of the ‘camp’ you refer to ARE a bit ‘negative’ and are proud of it, sadly. I am banned from TWW, but I will say nothing negative about either Dee or Deb. I do think some of the ‘camp’ are extreme in their ‘negativity’, though. I continue to support the work of the Deebs in putting light on situations that are complicit or active in abusing innocent people. I also trust Wade Burleson (Istoria blog) as a good man who comes weekly to present the sermon and E-Church for them what are not yet ready to come back to church ‘in community’.
    But that ‘camp’ you mentioned: I have concerns about them, yes. And some of their communication patterns also, which are meant to obfuscate, I believe.
    My advice is to talk to Dee about your concerns. I believe she would listen to you. You’ve always cared about Dee and she has looked out for you. Don’t let that be ruined or lost. Talk to her. At least, try.
    (Yes, I always get in even more trouble when I try to reconcile folks, but that somehow seems to be the right thing to do here, and so. . . . ) 🙂

    I have loved Charlottesville for many years. My brother has purchased a lovely house close to the University for his retirement which will likely come in the next five years time. (He’s a pediatrician in northern VA). UVa has been school for his whole family, yes. So, to think of the neo-Nazis and the white supremacists invading that lovely town with their venom makes me ill. And the death of that sweet child, Heather Heyer, only 32 years old, is heart-breaking to me. I share your concerns. My father fought in WWII, so I am in shock over the resurgence of the neo-Nazi nightmare here on our American soil.

    Don’t be discouraged, though. 20 % of evangelical people do NOT support Trump and his ilk. That’s a lot of people. That alone is enough to give me hope, and I’m Catholic. 🙂
    Thanks for letting me share. God Bless.

    Liked by 1 person

      • Eagle,
        Dee has recently been really worried about some very serious and painful medical problems. She is also stressed by a recent event now unfolding on TWW (a poison-pen letter). In short, she is heavily burdened and could benefit from the support of an old friend who cares for her well-being.
        God Bless.


  6. Thanks for taking a strong stand, Eagle. I completely agree re: the incredible harm the 81% have done to American Christianity. They’ve destroyed any credibility they had left with the younger generation, and people under 30 are going to continue to run for the exit. I fully expect that my children will enter adulthood in a country that’s got an 80-90% smaller Christian demographic than the one I grew up in because of the accelerated attrition and a dearth of conversions,both caused by the unholy marriage of Christianity and republicanism… and frankly, if these trump supporters are what passes for Christians these days, I’m totally fine with that.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Sure, while you are at it, let’s legalize pot, too, right? After all, 80 percent of america wants it legalized. But sure, let’s bring out the thought police, and pass laws that it is against the law to think any different than you, passing it off as free speech.


      • Yes, lets legalize pot! Right now the “war on drugs” is really expensive and ineffective, and there’s better ways to control drug use. If it stays illegal, then drug dealers can sell it to our kids, they can adulterate it with any sort of crap, and the profits are going to foreign drug lords and fueling violence. We legalize it, and it can be regulated for quality so it’s safer, dispensaries are less likely to sell to children than drug dealers are, the profits go to hardworking American farmers instead of drug lords, we can put our police resources to better uses to arresting anybody who has a joint, and we can tax it! I don’t use the stuff and don’t plan to, but there’s a real lesson to be learned from the gang violence in the 1920’s Prohibition Era. If the goal is to reduce the overall harm done to society from drugs, then we need to be willing to look at doing what works, instead of what lets us feel like we’re taking revenge on the “bad people”.


      • You know I was being sarcastic. I abhor drug use, and recreational drug users. Again, I am a US Navy Vet, and we did not do that. There would be no need for DRUG REHAB if there were no drug addicts.

        CHILDREN learn to MURDER other people and sell YOUR CHILDREN drugs in school. And you are OK with that?

        YOUR PEOPLE’s way of thinking is why we have a heroin problem in Ohio, the same exact city that my daughter lives in, in Middleton, Ohio that made national news.

        CHILDREN go to parties for the specific purpose of getting high…not because they have BACK PAIN.

        So, I don’t blame the pharmaceuticals, either. People abuse drugs not using them based on prescriptions.

        Furthermore, I do not buy into the argument that drug users is a victimless crime. It affects the whole family, legal or not.

        People are BREAKING THE LAW, and I am against anarchy.

        By legalizing drugs, you might as well legalize murder. It’s the same thing in MY MIND.



      • Yes, it’s the same thing to many people, which is why we’re still fighting this pointless destructive, expensive war. If we can best reduce the overall harm caused by drugs by keeping them illegal, then we should do that. And if we can best reduce the overall harm caused by drugs by legalizing them, then we should do that. And if there is another, better way to reduce the overall harm, then we should find out what that is, and do it. It seems that you are so stuck on the first option that you are unable even to consider that other strategies might be more effective that what we’re doing now, which clearly isn’t working.


      • Expensive war? I don’t care how much it costs…the war against drugs should continue, and this issue has NOTHING to do with feeling RIGHTEOUS. I demonize all users of abusers of drugs, not just pot smokers. I’m an equal opportunity demonizer here.

        And I am speaking from experience regarding my own family.

        Pot is legal here. You talk about regulating and taxing, huh? Do you know that Black Market sells it TAX FREE? So much for regulating and taxing.

        In addition, many have moved away from pot and moved on to harder drugs. There is NO FUN for the criminal when what they LOVE to do is legal. Part of their high is to break the law. Pot is legal, it’s not fun anymore. So, what is popular here is NOT necessarily pot, but Meth and Heroin. Those are fun for the criminal. And those drugs kill people.

        Studies are finding out that extensive use of pot over time causes memory loss at an early age, so there is consequences that no one expected.

        I’d rather have someone arrested for being drunk than for being high on drugs. There is a clear and present danger in drug use.

        And, it pot may be legal here, but MANY employers do not allow it, due to SAFETY reasons. If you get into an accident at work, LABOR AND INDUSTRIES requires a piss test, and if your employer see’s THC or any drug in your system, you are fired, and L&I will not pay your medical bills.

        So, for me, this is not JUST a moral issue, it is a safety issue and it’s about SAVING LIVES.

        And, if saving lives is expensive…spend the money. Maintain the war on drugs.


      • OH, ya, one more thing…I don’t buy into any argument that “weed” is safer than alcohol.

        Society would be better off with staying off drugs than getting on it.


      • My spouse is a judicial officer, and almost every person he sees come in front of him is drunk. A few are high on hard drugs, but the largest majority by far are drunk. They may have been brought in for fighting, or other reasons, but they are still drunk. Drunk drivers often kill people on the roads and angry drunks often beat up their families. Weed doesn’t do this. We should focus on overall harm reduction, not just on demonizing marijuana users. We should do what works, not what makes you feel righteous.


      • So, you would break the law if you could get away with it, since some laws to you are unfair? Or, would you wait until the law was changed first in order to maintain being a LAW ABIDING CITIZEN?


      • I’m so law-abiding that I’ve never even had a traffic ticket! I would work to change the laws. Which we do by talking about them. Especially by talking to the lawmakers about them.

        And we should look at places in the world that are trying different approaches, to see whether what they are doing is more effective, and learn from their experience.


      • I would recommend reading what our founding fathers said about how other nations ran things, which is the main reason that they did not want THIS NATION to be like any other. I don’t want to be like any other nation, either.

        I’ve been around the world and to MANY nations around the world. There is NO PLACE LIKE HOME.


      • Except that we borrowed the idea of Democracy from ancient Greece, the idea of a republic with two legislative assemblies from ancient Rome, and our Enlightenment thinking from European philosophers. Our common law is based on English common law (except for Louisiana). We’ve always taken ideas from elsewhere, and we should never get so full of our own self-importance that we aren’t willing to consider that other people might have experience we can learn from.

        Liked by 1 person

  7. Wondering Eagle said:
    “If you have never been to Charlottesville, I would encourage you to go. Its the home of the University of Virginia, and one of the greatest minds in American history, Thomas Jefferson also called it home.”

    My reply:

    Thomas Jefferson…slave owner, was he not?

    Today Trump asked about “what’s next, taking down the statue of Thomas Jefferson, or George Washington?”

    With all these statues coming down, BY THE ALT LEFT, kinda reminds me of the old fashioned Christian tradition of BOOK BURNING!

    Censorship at its finest. I thought Americans were against the Taliban blowing up statues. The Alt Left is acting just like them.


  8. From the OP:

    “where does Dee Parsons and Deb Martin stand?”

    Dave, if you want to know, why don’t you call them and ask?

    You know the rules the Deebs have at their blog. They shy away from partisan politics, which is their right, as you can do what you want here.

    But the Deebs don’t owe you or anyone else answers to your questions.

    On the other hand, you owe the Deebs quite a lot. They gave you a forum to tell your incredibly long and almost unreadable story. When you started your blog, TWW put up a link to your site. A little bit of respect and gratitude seems to be in order.

    A while back, I mentioned here that I hoped that you didn’t turn this blog into a political site and that political blogs are a dime a dozen. I can find much better political commentary elsewhere. This blog has become a continuing strident, hysterical rant, and, quite frankly, I find it boring. You may have the last word, as I do not intend to post here again.


    • Ken-

      One of the problems with The Wartburg Watch is that it is intentionally avoiding issues in Christianity and in the process is not being forthcoming. For example, the voting habits of 81% are being studied by others in academia and more. Warran Throckmorton and John Fea writes about these issues. In evangelicalism today there are two camps that largely exist – the Neo-Cal, and the old style Baptists/Evangelicals who marry their faith and politics together. The Wartburg Watch has nailed the Neo-Cal side well, and in the other area I believe they have failed. Dee Parsons claims to stay away from politics, but is that also true? Has she done that? I would deeply disagree. After all is that true when she writes posts like the following one in which she explained why she voted for Mitt Romney?

      So when she pens posts like that and suddenly stops why is that the case? Is a person’s motive changing? Are they being honest with their readers? Or could part of the reason by that it would be problematic to write a blog and focus on sex abuse and support someone who has boasted of abuse. It could be a lot of reasons. The emergence of Nazi symbols in the biggest rally in decades is a major issue. How could one turn a blind eye to it? How could one avoid the topic. This is one of those topics that I recall sitting in Bible studies doing Bonhoeffer that people talk about speaking up. Well that time is now especially when these problems are happening. To not do so would also mean not learning from Bonhoeffer and the lessons of the church in Germany. This situation happened in my backyard in Virginia and people are deeply upset. Its why I bumped a couple of posts to write what I did in this post. There is a lot to write about in the EFCA, Acts 29 and more but some of these other issues should not be ignored either. That is my take at the end of the day.


      • What concerns is the movement to make the Alt-Right morally equivalent to the ones who protest against it (Trump calls them the ‘Alt-Left’).
        I can’t understand this. There is NO way a protest group against neo-Nazis is as vile as the Nazi’s are, no. I am heartsick about what is happening. I can see the storm clouds on the horizon and I fear much more evil is to come.
        Have we lost so many of the ‘greatest generation’ that now we are now left with the alt-right influence sitting in our White House and preaching that the anti-Nazi protestors were as bad as the neo-Nazis????
        My heart hurts.

        Liked by 1 person

      • My contention with this topic regarding the Nazi’s is this:

        1st Amendment of the Constitution.

        If we are American’s we defend the Constitution.

        You have been gracious enough to put up with me. I thank you.

        However, when we discuss this EVIL people, the Neo-Nazi’s, the White Supremacists, Black Lives Matter, or Antifas, socialists, communists, marxists, or whatever, we MUST acknowledge their FIRST AMENDMENT rights to protest, to free speech, the right to assemble.

        We don’t have to agree.

        The ONLY reason that we have a PROTECTION to Free Speech is because of their hate speech. We don’t need protection for speech that we agree on. We only need protection for speech that we disagree on.

        However, INCITEMENT to violence, or violence itself, which is what I have been HOUNDING about, NEGATES out PROTEST, which negates out protection, and it becomes anarchy, which is AGAINST THE LAW.

        Trump was correct, that there was TWO very violent extremes at that place, BOTH looking for violence.

        Peaceful protest is not against the law. No one there, who partook in violence is innocent.

        In addition, ONE SIDE had a LEGAL PERMIT to be there. So, the question is, who authorized the gathering to begin with?

        And lastly, I am not defending the White Supremacists, nor am I defending the Noe-Nazi’s. I am defending the Constitution.

        Whatever happened to “I disagree with your opinions, but I will fight to the death for your right to express them!”?????

        The law was broken when violence took place. Violence would not have taken place had the opposing team not been there looking for a fight. Granted, the Neo-Nazi’s and White Supremacists were probably looking for a fight, too, as evidenced by the vehicle used to plow people down with.

        But, murdering people, injuring people, etc., is already against the law to begin with, and this is being looked into as a civil rights violation of the law.

        If we are going to boast about RULE OF LAW in this country, then by God ALL OF US are to adhere to the law, and that includes, the 1st and 2nd Amendments to the Constitution.

        And that is what we, as US Military sign as our contract to be in the US Military.

        We can hate the rhetoric, but we must defend their rights, like it or not.


        Ed Chapman


  9. Eagle,

    It’s certainly rough times for all of us Americans right now. I’ve known you a while now and knowing the kind of man you are, this really has to be tearing you up seeing all this happen. That’s got to be rough and I hope it gets better. It’s stormy times.

    That being said, I think you are being unfair to the Deebs especially with this sentence.

    In light of Charlottesville, where do the Deebs stand on Nazi ideology?

    I don’t even have to ask, I know where they stand. In firm opposition to it. This is unworthy of you to say about them. They have blog with a focus on church abuse. They cannot be all things to all issues and have since early times on their blog avoided politics for the most part. Because you are righteously angry does not mean that people who do not share your same passion are in league with Nazi’s.

    The Deebs helped you discover your voice, and you’ve made it into this blog that obviously shows your passion. They helped you reconnect with your faith, which is obviously fairly important to you. And this is about their commenters? Would you have us hold you accountable for the views of Ed Chapman? You’ve given him a platform for a very long time to share his views and belligerence. That would be ridiculous for us to hold you to account for him and I think it is equally to do so to Dee and Deb for their commenters. Both of your sites have tried for a very open approach to allowing commenters access and freedom to post their views.

    Eagle, I admire your passion and your willingness to look everywhere for your answers. However I feel that with your Nazi sympathizer JAQ to the Deebs, you missed the mark.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Thanks for being honest with me Blue. I appreciate it. Always be free to speak your mind. Its healthy and good to get diverse feedback. And its important to be challenged. The fact that you would disagree is good. Really appreciate this bro!


    • I had pondered for some time about this issue. Are TWW obligated to speak against Nazism and racism? And I conclude that each Christian can, as guide by the Holy Spirit, get involved or choose not to be involved in any ministry.

      For example let say a ministry named India Ministries (IM) is doing great works in helping the orphans in India. And there is another ministry named Columbia Ministries (CM) that is helping the poor villages in Columbia.

      Imagine that one day that someone from CM walk into IM’s office and tell IM all about the terrible things happening in Columbia. That Columbia needs very urgent support. CM is trying to convince IM to drop everything in India and go help Columbia. IM refuses, because it is trying to focus on India. IM won’t even delegate any part of their budget and time to Columbia, because their hands are already tied to India.

      The guy from CM gets very angry. He say he will never talk with IM again because IM doesn’t care at all about Columbia.

      Is CM in the right? I had pondered about this but I must say no. CM is in the wrong to “force” IM to serve in Columbia. IM is right to stay with India. Because India is what the Holy Spirit told IM to do. This DOESN’T mean IM actually doesn’t care about Columbia. No not at all. But IM is called by the Holy Spirit to serve India and so that is what IM must do.

      All of us Christians, from all over the world, are actually one body. ALTOGETHER we represent Christ on earth. And each both part has different functions. Each body part of the church of Christ serves a different function. No one is more important or more urgent than the other. God will provide what each separate ministry needs for their ministry. But united into one we all represent Jesus, his love for all of mankind, and his righteousness.

      For example some are called to focus on, perhaps, family and church abuses. Others are called to focus on, perhaps, Nazism and discrimination. So if TWW feel that it is called to serve only those that suffers from family abuse and church abuse, they have every right to. They are called by the Holy Spirit to do so. So TWW can avoid any talk about Politics if they choose to, including Nazism and Racism.

      I understand that it can be shocking for someone to be AGAINST church abuse and sexual abuse, YET at the SAME time to be FOR Trump (grab that married woman by the p*ssy!) and FOR Nazism (throw the Jews into the gas chambers!). But these kind of contradictions often happens. Humans are all sinners. Remember the young David who righteously refused to kill King Saul even when God delivered Saul to him, because killing King Saul would be a sin. However the SAME David would later steal another man’s wife and kill him to cover it up. The SAME David! This is shocking yes but it often happens. Humans are not so black and white. Humans, even Christians, spent most of their life in the grey area. They will have moments of righteousness, and then moments of extreme sins. A false believer would stay in that evil, delighting, enjoying and rejoicing in that evil. A true Christians will be disgusted with himself/herself and repent of that evil, because evil sins disgust them. This is the Holy Spirit.

      My conclusion is that it is alright for a ministry to only focus on one aspect of this world while choosing to ignore the other. I think it is fair to say that TWW already has their hands full just from all these church abuses and sexual abuses. They are not lacking work. And from what I understand Dee and Deb volunteer their time on that website. They have their other full time job too. It is fair for them to say that they don’t have time to deal with any political discussions. And that politics isn’t really their expertise. So they have the right to ignore certain political comments and even ignore comments from Nazi Christians.
      As much as we all like to do everything and serve everywhere, God gives us a time and resource limit for good reason. The church is not a one person show. We must all contribute to the body of Christ. If you feel that God calls you to deal with the Christian Nazism issue and other political issues, feel free to focus your time and resources on them. But my conclusion is it won’t be fair to “force” TWW to do that.

      Most important of all we MUST love each other. We cannot let our love for each other fail due to our projects. Our projects are dead, we are alive. Because the whole point of anything we do is from love. Jesus prayed that true believers will stay united as one no matter what. Now if someone is obviously a false Christian, by all means excommunicate that person. But for that to happen we need very strong and very clear evidence of sin. Namely they delight and rejoice in hateful sins and evil, with no true guilt nor shame at all. Their repentance are all fake and pretended. Then yes remove them from the fellowship. But a disagreement on opinion is NOT ground for excommunication. Especially when it is something like IM refusing to help Columbia and stay focus on India, for example. Once again this is not due to a lack of love for Columbia. But just that the Holy Spirit call all of us to do different things, while being united into one body of the true church Christ.

      I really enjoy both TWW and here Wondering Eagle. They really opened my eyes on the Neo-Calvinism issue. I hope that they can reconcile and continue to do God’s good work to each of their respective callings from the Holy Spirit.

      Jesus: So that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. John 17:21-23

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      • Chips I appreciate your words and wisdom. There is a lot in here to think about. There always is when you speak. I appreciate what you share as it leaves me thinking. You’re always welcome to chill and speak your mind. Diversity of opinion is always a strength in my book.


  10. Pingback: Why Racism is a Sin, and Why Confederate Monuments in the United States Need to be Removed | Wondering Eagle

  11. I had been against Trump since the beginning. I had been against him before he told the whole world that he abuse his power and influence to grab women by their p*ssy. That kind of dishonor of women was the icing on the cake.

    An abuser will always be an abuser. They delight and rejoice in abuse. They find abuse fun. They love their power, control and ego. In some very rare cases the power of Christ and change their heart. But most likely they will stay abusive.

    And we have Trump here who has lived like a lawless sinner all his life. With his mouth he say he believe in Jesus. But there has never been any sign of repentance of submission to Jesus. Trump is his own god. Why would an non-believing sinful abuser like Trump change his ways?

    I know it is shocking that 81% of Christians voted for Trump. But even that we could perhaps argue that Hilary Clinton was a worst candidate. Oh fine. So we have 2 terrible and evil sinners. And 81% of Christians believe that Trump is “slightly less” sinful. Ok fine this can be argued. We made the best out of the worst and terrible situation in this election.

    In case I wasn’t clear, a Christian doesn’t have to be part of the 19% that voted against Trump to do the right thing. They can reject Trump right now and stand against him, even if they voted for him earlier. There is no obligation for Christians to support a non-believing sinner. You might vote for Trump because you believe he was the lessor of two evils. This DOESN’T automatically change Trump into a saint. Trump is still a terrible non-believing sinner. And you can go ahead and counter every single one of Trump’s sins, including Nazism and Racism. Do you not understand this?

    Now, what really is painful to see is when a Christian defends Nazism and racism. It is so painful that honestly I don’t even know where to begin to talk with them. So you know that you were a sinner. Jesus loves you and take you into his family. He told you that, if you love Him, you go love your neighbor as yourself. Love even your very worst enemies, no matter how much they have wronged you. Love the least of these. And let you love be a testimony to share the Gospel with them. Spread the Gospel from Israel (yeah remember that place???) to the ENDS OF THE WORLD. Because God is love.

    Is Jesus not clear on this Greatest Commandant and the Great Commission? That you are to love God and love your neighbors just as much as you love yourself? That you are to spread the Gospel to absolutely anyone, because they too are created and loved by God. Is Jesus not clear on this? Or are you just going to ignore this or twisted it to something hateful?

    So knowing the above fully, you now supports Nazism and Racism? So you support discriminating people based purely on race. You believe the White race is superior to all other racists. And you believe on locking minority people into concentration camps. And you believe in gassing them all to death. Extermination!

    Yes you do! If you support Nazism and Racism this is what you are supporting. Don’t lie to yourself.

    I am not sure if anyone tell you this, but there are different levels and severity of hell. There is a place for atheists who never believed. Yes they will be in hell in torment forever and ever. But there is another place in hell, a great hell that is even more painful, for those who knows ABOUT God, claims to believe, yet they actually don’t. (Read again, they know ABOUT God intellectually, they DON’T know God personally.)

    Do you want prove that you cannot possibly love God when you hate people? Is it not enough prove in 1 Corinthians 13:1-3, 1 John 4:16-21, James 2:12-20, & Matthew 25:41-46 ? Or do you want more prove?

    Or do you want to find out about the greater condemnation in Matthew 23:14? Look at yourself. You have intellectual knowledge of God. But here you are devouring widows’ houses and you claim that you are a holy man. When you take away a family and put them into concentration camps, you take their house for yourself. And you lock up the family just so you can take their jobs away for yourself. Is this not devouring widows’ houses? You tell me! Do you really think the German people back in 1939 was innocent? No they delight and rejoiced in that evil, because they get FREE HOUSES, FREE CASH and FREE JOBS! This is highway robbery by the Nazi government and the people. You think they didn’t know what was going on?

    So for you, you really think God will judge you innocent just because you intellectually know about God? EVEN DEMONS know about God, know more than you do I might add, and is scared of God more than you do. So if you know these demons and heading for torture in hell, HOW are you any better than the demons? Faith WITHOUT works of love is DEAD! Go read James 2 again. I didn’t make this up.

    If anyone humble themselves and repent their sin to God, God will certainly forgive them and give them the Holy Spirit to change their heart. If you have just a mustard seed size of faith, you will have a mustard seed size of love for your neighbors. And you would certainly be saved. In heaven you will receive a mustard seed size of treasures. And, hopefully, if you chose to love more you will get more treasures. But if you only want a mustard seed size of treasures you can choose to love only a little. But at least you will be saved into heaven.

    But if anyone intellectually know of God but yet reject God’s ways, there is no saving them. Because they DELIGHT and REJOICE in EVIL, when they already know of the truth of Jesus. How can they be saved? Satan, who was a murderer since the beginning, is their true father. That’s why Satan’s children also wants to kill and steal and destroy. The way of God is love your neighbour. If they reject this and instead chose to DELIGHT and REJOICE in EVIL, they will be worst off than atheists. These false prophets will fully deserve to be thrown into the greater abyss and face greater condemnation in the deepest levels of hell.

    God said what he said. Go read the verses I quoted. Let the Holy Spirit speak to you to convince you. Repent repent repent! Jesus loves you! I pray that you day you will truly be filled with God’s love, so you will no longer hate. Instead you will love all every single one of your neighbors, across all races and cultures, just as much as you love yourself. Start with a mustard seed size of love and let your Fruits of the Spirit grow from there.

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    • I would conclude that evil men corrupt the word “love” by saying “The end justifies the mean”. That means for the “greater good”, a local small “sin is justified”.

      So they say things like: “I am only doing this local small evil and sin here, in order for greater justices and greater love for more people.”

      You can plug in anywhere here. For example Bob abuses his wife but is an important elder in the church. So to keep Bob’s service, the church pastor help him cover up the abuses and forced his wife to keep quiet. The sin (abuse) is justified by the greater good (keeping Bob’s service to the church, donations, reputation of the church, etc).

      By this they are also saying that God ALLOWS local small sins for the greater good. And this is perhaps the GREATEST HERESY possible when it comes to God. Because they are saying God’s law only applies SOME of the time in SOME of the situations. So sins are only SITUATIONAL. And of course these times and situations are determined by some ELDERS and PASTORS in their congregation.

      Hence when the TIME and SITUATION is RIGHT, go ahead and burn the heretics, allow slavery, napalm bomb little children in Vietnam, put the Jews into CONCENTRATION CAMPS, abuse your wife/husband, protect the abuser while excommunicating the victim instead, and all other sort of evil and sinful behaviors. All of these sins justified because the elders and pastors said so.

      How to justify putting Jews into concentration camps? Easily. Jews took all our jobs and all our money. They are evil worthless insects. So to “protect” the German people we must lock them all up. We did this out of “love” for the German people. For the “greater good” of the German people we “must” exterminate the Jews.

      Men’s evil minds can justify anything. “The end justifies the mean”. That means for the “greater good”, a local small “sin is justified”. Remember this always, since evil men often use this deceiving tactic.

      Hence the prophecies from Paul to Timothy comes true. I can even quote ESV here since God said what he said.

      2 Timothy 4:3-4
      3 For the time is coming when people will NOT endure sound[a] teaching, but having ITCHING ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to SUIT their OWN PASSIONS, 4 and will turn AWAY from listening to the truth and WANDER OFF into MYTHS.

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