Why The Wondering Eagle is Supporting Russell Moore and his Criticism of Donald Trump and Calling on Him to Stand Strong; Plus Hemant Mehta Gets Involved

A look at the issue with Russell Moore and his criticism of Donald Trump during the Presidential campaign. This is looking at the way part of the Southern Baptist Convention is reacting to Moore and also Hemant Mehta weighs in on this issue. This blog post is a conscious decision from the depths of my soul to tell the Christian church you can not be outraged about abuse in Sovereign Grace and other organizations while then dismiss allegations of abuse by Donald Trump. Today The Wondering Eagle is standing alongside Russell Moore and looks at him as being a beacon of light in the Southern Baptist Convention.

“These evangelical leaders have said that, for the sake of the “lesser of two evils,” one should stand with someone who not only characterizes sexual decadence and misogyny, brokers in cruelty and nativism, and displays a crazed public and private temperament — but who glories in these things. Some of the very people who warned us about moral relativism and situational ethics now ask us to become moral relativists for the sake of an election. And when some dissent, they are labeled as liberals or accused of moral preening or sitting comfortably on the sidelines. The cynicism and nihilism is horrifying to behold. It is not new, but it is clearer to see than ever.”

Russell Moore in the Washington Post

“There is good news, though, behind all of this, regardless of how this election turns out. The old-school political Religious Right establishment wonders why the evangelical next generation rejects their way. The past year is illustration enough. The evangelical movement is filled with younger, multiethnic, gospel-centered Christians. They are defined by a clear theology and a clear mission — not by the doctrinally vacuous resentment over a lost regime of nominal, cultural “Christian America.””

Russell Moore in the Washington Post

For the wicked will be destroyed, but those who trust in the Lord will possess the land.

Psalm 37:9 NLT


Image from Wikipedia and Theology147

There has been a flurry of activity involving the leader of the ERLC Russell Moore. The issue deserves to be discussed and there are many competing angles on this developing story. But let’s start out by asking the question…who is Russell Moore?


Who is Russell Moore?

Today Russell Moore is the eighth President of the Southern Baptist Conventions’ Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission.  He comes from Biloxi, Mississippi and earned a B.S. in political science and history form the University of Southern Mississippi. Plus he earned a M.Div from New Orleans Baptist Seminary and a Ph.D. in systematic theology from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (SBTS) in Louisville. In 2001 he was appointed to the faculty at the SBTS, and in 2004 was named to the Dean of the School of Theology and Senior Vice President of Academic Administration. In addition he also served as the Executive Editor The Southern Baptist Journal of Theology and currently serves as the Senior Editor for Touchstone Magazine.  When he was made the head of the ERLC this Calvinist hired a staff I believe from The Gospel Coalition which was controversial.  He has published at least five books including “Onward: Engaging the Culture without Losing the Gospel“,”Adopted for Life: The Priority of Adoption for Christian Families and Churches“, “ Tempted and Tried: Temptation and the Triumph of Christ“, and “The Gospel and Racial Reconciliation.” Moore is a prolific writer who has penned articles for the New York Times, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, Wall Street Journal and many other publications. He is heavily influenced by Carl F.H. Henry and Abraham Kuyper. In the Southern Baptist community he is viewed as a voice for moderation, who breaks with the past. He has criticized reparation therapy which tries to make gays straight and toned down the language to the gay and lesbian community. Racial reconciliation is important to Moore and he has written in support of resettling Syrian refugees in the United States.


Russell Moore During the 2016 Campaign

The 2016 Presidential race was one of the most divisive in history and no where is that more true than in regards to how evangelicals reacted to Donald Trump. After Jerry Falwell Jr.  endorsed Trump that opened the door to deep controversy, one  of the most outspoken critics would be Russell Moore. Moore penned an article for the Washington Post in February of 2016. The heat increased considerably when on May 6, 2016 in an op ed article for the New York Times called “A White Church No More”  Moore took direct aim at Trump. Stop and consider these two paragraphs:

This election has cast light on the darkness of pent-up nativism and bigotry all over the country. There are not-so-coded messages denouncing African-Americans and immigrants; concern about racial justice and national unity is ridiculed as “political correctness.” Religious minorities are scapegoated for the sins of others, with basic religious freedoms for them called into question. Many of those who have criticized Mr. Trump’s vision for America have faced threats and intimidation from the “alt-right” of white supremacists and nativists who hide behind avatars on social media.

The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s “I Have a Dream” speech did not envision that more than 50 years later “Go back to Africa” would be screamed at black protesters or that a major presidential candidate would tweet racially charged comments. Some American Christians may be tempted to ignore these issues, hoping they are just a wave of “political incorrectness” that will ebb in due time. That short of silence shortchanges both out gospel and our future.” 

Moore continued by talking about how when secular Americans view evangelicals they think of white, old precinct captains or white television evangelists. It was during this that Moore called on Christians to be on the right side of Jesus. He then closed out his op-ed by saying the following:

The Bible calls on Christians to bear one another’s burdens. White American Christians who respond to cultural tumult with nostalgia fail to do this. They are blinding themselves to the injustices faced by their black and brown brothers and sisters in the supposedly idyllic Mayberry of white Christian America. That world was murder, sometimes literally, for minority evangelicals.

This has gospel implications not only for minorities and immigrants but for the so-called silent majority. A vast majority of Christians, on earth and in heaven, are not white and have never spoken English. A white American Christian who disregards nativist language is in for a shock. The man on the throne in heaven is a dark-skinned, Aramaic-speaking “foreigner” who is probably not all that impressed by chants of “Make America great again.”

For a man who has thin skin Trump reacted in anger and on May 9, 2016 at 3:05 in the morning on Twitter the Republican front runner lashed out like a rabid dog.Russell Moore is truly a terrible representative of Evangelicals and all of the good they stand for. A nasty guy with no heart!With class, humility, restraint and decency Moore’s response to Trump was limited to one word. He just said, “Sad.” Many of Trump’s supporters lashed out at Moore on Twitter and social media. You can read about the criticism in this Time magazine article. Moore however continued on the criticism when in June  he told an interviewer that Trump needed the Lord and that he was lost. Moore specifically said, “My primary prayer for Donald Trump is that he would first of all repent of sin and come to faith in Jesus Christ.” Also on Face the Nation Moore called Trump’s campaign “reality television raw sewage.” On September 17, 2015 in another article for the New York Times called “Have Evangelicals Who Support Trump Lost Their Values?” Moore continued his criticism. To make it simple Moore said that to back Trump would mean that evangelicals would have to repudiate everything they believe. But pay attention to this final paragraph in Moore’s piece.

Jesus taught his disciples to “count the cost” of following him. We should know, he said, where we’re going and what we’re leaving behind. We should also count the cost of following Donald Trump. To do so would mean that we’ve decided to join the other side of the culture war, that image and celebrity and money and power and social Darwinist “winning” trump the conservation of moral principles and a just society. We ought to listen, to get past the boisterous confidence and the television lights and the waving arms and hear just whose speech we’re applauding.

In October Russell Moore penned another article, this time for the Washington Post that called out the religious right and criticized it. The Access Hollywood tape was leaked and many evangelicals still supported Trump. In an article called “If Donald Trump has done anything, he has snuffed out the Religious Right” consider what Moore says:

Donald Trump once bragged to radio shock-jock Howard Stern about walking through the dressing rooms of his beauty pageants while contestants were getting dressed. He could do it, he suggested, because he owned the place.

This year, religious conservatism stands naked and exposed before the world, while Trump smugly surveys what he has come to own.

 Journalist Mark Halperin noted this weekend that virtually all of the “reaffirmation of support” for Trump, following the disclosure of his sexually predatory recorded comments, were from religious conservative leaders. This is a scandal and a disgrace, but it should not be a surprise.

He goes on and talks about the old white establishment evangelical guard.

And yet here stands the old-guard Religious Right establishment. Some are defending or waving this away, with the same old tropes they’ve used throughout this campaign. Trump’s not a Sunday school teacher, they tell us. Trump’s a new King David or pagan deliverer Cyrus. Trump is either a “baby Christian” or the kind of tough strongman conservative Christians need since the Sermon on the Mount isn’t realistic enough for the 21st century.

And then Moore continues to criticize the religious right and points out the BS that exists.

What’s at stake here is far more than an election. In the 1980s, many evangelicals quietly cringed when they saw the endless stream of hucksters called “television evangelists” on the airwaves around them. These figures cried on cue, sold their protein shakes and end-times emergency food packets, and peddled “anointed” prayer cloths in exchange for donations, all while explaining to us what political point God was making with natural disasters. When one after another fell into open scandal, it wasn’t just their prosperity gospel voodoo that was disgraced before the world, but the reputation of the entire church. And yet the damage done to gospel witness this year will take longer to recover from than those 1980s televangelist scandals.

These evangelical leaders have said that, for the sake of the “lesser of two evils,” one should stand with someone who not only characterizes sexual decadence and misogyny, brokers in cruelty and nativism, and displays a crazed public and private temperament — but who glories in these things. Some of the very people who warned us about moral relativism and situational ethics now ask us to become moral relativists for the sake of an election. And when some dissent, they are labeled as liberals or accused of moral preening or sitting comfortably on the sidelines. The cynicism and nihilism is horrifying to behold. It is not new, but it is clearer to see than ever.

This reaction by Russell Moore did not go over very well with parts of the Southern Baptist Convention as we shall see.


How Southern Baptists are Reacting

The following day after the election Russell Moore talked about how divisive the election became and how Christians should honor their leaders. You can listen to that podcast right here. However within the Southern Baptist Convention there was outrage over what happened and over how Russell Moore reacted during the campaign.  In a Wall Street Journal article that came out on December 19, 2016 called “Baptist Figure Faces Backlash Over His Criticism of Donald Trump” some of this resistance and anger to Moore went public. Some Southern Baptists supported ending funding to the public policy agency Moore heads. Or they talked about withholding funds. Jack Graham of Prestonwood Baptist Church said the following. “There was a disrespectfulness towards Southern Baptists and other evangelical leaders, past and present,” and said that his church is “considering making major changes in our support of the Southern Baptist Convention.” In addition Graham states that the SBC will not have access to Trump. Meanwhile William F Harrell, who once served on the Southern Baptist Convention’s executive committee  said that the ERLC needs to change or be eliminated. He also stated that he knew of pastors that were considering withholding funds.  This was revealed in his blog post which you can read here. Robert Jeffries from First Baptist Dallas also criticized Moore saying, “I’ve had deacons in my church very concerned about the direction of the ERLC…” and “They do not believe it represents our church’s beliefs.

In response to all this Russell Moore wrote a blog post also on December 19, called “Election Year Thoughts at Christmastime.” In that post Moore apologized for his behavior and said the following:

“A little over a month out from the 2016 elections, this is the question I’ve been thinking about recently. As many Americans travel home to see family, many of you are bound to be on the receiving end of heated political conversations. Some of you may be visiting family who are upset about how you voted. Others of you may deal with family who are upset about things you did or didn’t say. Still others of you may be disappointed with how a family member advocated or debated.

I can understand that. Over the last month, there have been some pointed conversations in my denominational family about the election and the way forward, and some of them have been directed at me. But it also raises a broader question worth considering: as Christians, how should we move forward in this Christmas season and beyond?

First, try to see where there are misunderstandings. I remember one situation where I witnessed a handful of Christian political operatives excusing immorality and confusing the definition of the gospel. I was pointed in my criticisms, and felt like I ought to have been. But there were also pastors and friends who told me when they read my comments they thought I was criticizing anyone who voted for Donald Trump. I told them then, and I would tell anyone now: if that’s what you heard me say, that was not at all my intention, and I apologize. There’s a massive difference between someone who enthusiastically excused immorality and someone who felt conflicted, weighed the options based on biblical convictions, and voted their conscience. In a heated campaign season focused on sound bites, this distinction can get lost in the headlines, so it bears repeating.”

As there has been blow back to Moore a number of people, young Baptist pastors and younger people burned out by the culture wars have gone to Moore’s defense. A new Twitter hashtag called #IStandWithMoore is being used by Moore’s supporters. Others who have publically stood with Russell Moore include Oklahoma Senator James Lankford, as well Ray Outland, musician Derek Minor, D.A. Horton, Justin Taylor, Lauren Chandler, and Liberty University professor Karen Swallow.  Also its drawing other coverage such as this article by Jonathan Merritt and the Federalist has come out swinging for Moore in this article by Nathan Leamer called “Christians Need More Leaders Like Russell Moore.”


Hemant Mehta Enters the Fray


I like to write about atheism and secularism because I believe that the topic should be covered. One of my criticisms with many Christian blogs is that they do not pay attention or listen to the atheist community. That is a shame, and I also believe it develops into tunnel vision. How can you effectively cover or write about something and only pay attention to information on one side? This story with Russell Moore will illustrate this problem.  As the situation with Russell Moore dragged on after the election Hemant Mehta entered the fray this week. For those of you who do not know Hemant Mehta writes as The Friendly Atheist. He authors probably one of the most well known atheist blogs on Patheos. When the Wall Street Journal wrote about the controversy with Moore Hemant Mehta tweeted the article and added some very insightful commentary. In the tweet he said, “Southern Baptists are more upset with the Christian who denounced bigotry than the candidate who thrived on it.” What Hemant is calling out is how Southern Baptists have no problems with bigotry. Their behavior is revealing themselves now in how many are going after Moore. Hemant I believe is pointing out that many Southern Baptists ignore bigotry when its convenient and when there is a higher calling. In the case with Trump that would mean that bigotry takes a back seat to winning the White House at any and all costs. Hemant Mehta’s tweet is insightful and as I have written about in the past many atheists should be listened. They have insightful perspective and offer an opinion from time to time that is spot on.  In this case Hemant Mehta is correct.  In how Southern Baptists embraced Donald Trump what it shows is that many Southern Baptists warmed up to their racist past, and obviously feel comfortable with it. After all it needs to be pointed out that the Southern Baptists were formed when they broke away prior to the Civil War. Today the Southern Baptists are just nodding to  their heritage and show how they still struggle with bigotry. That was one of the consequences of this election. The Southern Baptist Convention  took a major step back when they tied themselves to Donald Trump.  That is my analysis of the atheist angle, and I want to thank Hement Mehta for his Tweet in pointing this issue out.


I Don’t Understand Parts of My Tribe

This is going to be very blunt but in the commitment to be fair and calling out a situation I need to state the following. I don’t understand parts of my tribe and I can’t believe some of the stuff I have heard over the last few weeks. I am baffled why people would protest a church where a pastor has allegedly engaged in cover up of child sex abuse and then turn around and support a man who bragged about grabbing a female’s pussy. I do not understand why some people are upset with the alleged cover up of child sex abuse in Sovereign Grace and then support a man who bragged of an alleged sexual assault. I can’t believe that some in my crowd were outraged when the pussified nation comments of Mark Driscoll came forward and then turned around and dismissed Donald Trump boasting of “grabbing them by the pussy.” What is the difference between Mark Driscoll and Donald Trump? In the end I would say that it is very little. Plus both the Access Hollywood tape and the Mars Hill bulletin board where all this leaked out happened 10 to 15 years years ago. After al the Mars Hill comments occurred in 2000 and the Access Hollywood tape made in 2005. Both are old…but I can’t figure out why some evangelicals would dismiss one but not the other? Can someone explain this to me?  I honestly hope that there hasn’t been Christians bloggers who are outraged about child sex abuse cover up who dismiss the Access Hollywood tape and support Donald Trump. If that happens that would be such blatant hypocrisy and to be honest with you if I poke around I am terrified to find out more. One lasting impact I am afraid of is that I would become a done as I would be so disgusted if I found out the entire story. In my case I invested too much, went through too much hell to hear Christians who are principled support Trump. It leaves me to ask the question…what am I associated with? Watching my personal Facebook feed has been beyond depressing.

Mark Noll is correct about the scandal of the evangelical mind. That was on prominent display this past election. In addition many evangelicals tipped their hat and illustrated how many struggle with cognitive dissonance, reasoning and critical thinking skills. Today because of how many people processed Donald Trump I can now understand why some people just will go from toxic church to another toxic church. They haven’t learned to think for themselves. And they can’t identify toxic leadership at all. From C.J. Mahaney to Mark Driscoll to Donald Trump many of us saw the dark side of evangelicalism recently. Narcissism comes in many forms and many people can’t recognize it at all.  I would like to think that my writing kept other people from being hurt, and educated others. But sometimes I honestly wonder if parts of evangelicalism are too far gone to make a difference. But I can’t figure this out at all? After all I would think that rape is rape and sexual assault is sexual assault. I would think that people would be outraged in all forms because of how they feel about this issue. If Christians in my camp are going to be outraged by organizations like Sovereign Grace and their alleged criminal activity and then dismiss Donald Trump’s boasting of sexual assault well that just doesn’t fly. I think a person losses credibility in talking about issues such as Sovereign Grace, as their blind spot handicaps them. I sat and stewed on this issue for the past month but when I saw the controversy  spill out into the media, and began watching how atheists are processing it, I realized that I was going to have to act.  But I want to explain why this blog supports Russell Moore and why I am calling on him to stand tall.


Russell Moore Is a Beacon of Hope for the Next Four Years and The Wondering Eagle Supports Him

First let me state that I am not a Neo-Calvinist at all. I have written about how Neo-Calvinism/Reformed theology makes the problem of evil worse when I wrote about Newtown and John Piper’s reaction to it. I was asked to tell my story at The Wartburg Watch which can be read here. Plus I know how close Russell Moore is to Al Mohler. So I want this to be crystal clear as I do not think in black and white. Today The Wondering Eagle is standing alongside people like Ray Outland, and Lauren Chandler and others to say that I stand with Russell Moore. I believe that the Southern Baptist Convention is fortunate to have him and this writer is grateful that he leads the ERLC.

But before going further lets stop and look at the people who are critiquing and challenging Russell Moore. Robert Jeffries is basically the Pat Robertson of the Southern Baptist Convention and not someone who can honestly be taken seriously. He is long remembered for one of the largest spectacles in the Southern Baptist community, and that is the $130 million he spent on a construction project. Stop and consider what a lot of that money could have gone for in Africa, the construction of wells, or taking care of the poor in Dallas. Honestly does one have to say any more about Jeffries?

Then there is Jack Graham of Prestonwood Baptist Church. Jack has been a vocal supporter of Donald Trump. I believe Jack stated that it was a sin not to vote for Donald Trump. I recall reading that somewhere but I am struggling to find that. I have news for Jack….I boldly sinned in how I voted. After all doesn’t Martin Luther say that when it comes to sin one should sin boldly? Well sin I did! Then there is another factor about Jack Graham which maybe helps put his support for Donald Trump in perspective. There is the issue of John Langworthy who was allegedly involved in sexual abuse at Prestonwood Baptist. He quietly resigned in 1989 I believe and then Prestonwood allegedly covered it up and let him go. Langworthy left Texas and became involved in a church in Mississippi where he went on and engaged in child sexual abuse. Its my understanding that Amy Smith is the person to go to on this issue and you can read about it in greater detail in this Dallas Observer article. But given the track record of the alleged cover up of child sex abuse at Prestonwood Baptist…is that why Jack Graham had no problem supporting Donald Trump? After all why care about child sex abuse if you throw your support behind a Presidential candidate who boasts of grabbing someone’s pussy? Does Jack Graham believe that alleged sexual crimes are normal and okay? Apparently in reading about his reaction to Trump in this past election the answer to that question is yes. So when you stop and consider the source of the criticism against Moore that helps put much of his in a different light.

The Wondering Eagle is profoundly grateful that Russell Moore heads the ERLC. This non Calvinist who disagrees on some theological issues with Russell Moore finds him to be refreshing and a relief in the Southern Baptist Convention.  His boldness to take on Donald Trump was necessary and essential. I believe that he is right, and that people who voted for Trump voted against everything that they profess as Christians. They compromised their Christian faith. I am also calling on Russell Moore to stand tall, be proud and carry the torch. Russell Moore is needed now more than ever and I believe that he will be the heart and conscious of the Southern Baptist Convention for the next four years. He needs to be even more vocal and challenge Trump now more than ever.  For those of us who are younger I look up to Moore and his engagement and challenging Trump with awe, and a profound sense of gratitude. At a time of criticism I hope that Moore and parts of The Gospel Coalition find this post encouraging. While I disagree with The Gospel Coalition when parts of them are right then I believe they should be commended. I am asking The Gospel Coalition to be loud and vocal these next four years. I still believe we have to discuss the C.J. Mahaney issue but in areas where The Gospel Coalition takes on Trump I want to encourage them forward. But getting back to Moore I want to take a moment and say brother, I stand with you.

I know some people who are close to me are going to disagree with this post. Some are going to think I lost my mind. This post was driven by my conscious. I am a free spirited person and this post will only display that issue further. Its harder to stand up to your enemies and those you disagree with, but its even harder to stand up to your friends. Yet out of love I need to communicate my thoughts and feelings. I hope people understand this and know that this is not being done in a flippant manner, this is being done by a guy deeply concerned. Christians cannot be outraged in abuse in one area and then go and dismiss it in another. If that happens then I propose that the Christian community shut down and crawl under a rock and disappear off the face of the earth. You are free to communicate and speak your mind either down below or behind the scenes. Again I love you guys!


45 thoughts on “Why The Wondering Eagle is Supporting Russell Moore and his Criticism of Donald Trump and Calling on Him to Stand Strong; Plus Hemant Mehta Gets Involved

  1. (Just a clairification-I don’t know if it was Jack Graham who said it was a sin not to vote for Trump-sounds like Robert Jeffress.)

    Thank you for this post. Moore was the only voice of reason in this whole evangelical catastrophe.

    Having grown up overseas I don’t understand American Christians and I’m at a point I don’t think they understand Christianity or serve the Christ. The total lack of integrity I see in American evangelicalism is appalling. The hypocrisy on all sides is perhaps due to the materialistic enmeshment in the culture in which American evangelicals indulge themselves. To be spiritually abused for having studied overseas and having an outside perspective on these blind spots has been painful. There is no place for me in a Christianity that hates Muslims and bullies people as “snowflakes” or worse.

    There is nothing honorable about voting for a public bully and abuser of many journalists, private citizens, and opponents, not even to stand against abortion. It’s compromise for Christians. It is sinful as is the spiritual abuse of all those who speak tough truths into the situation. Especially so for those who stand against sexual and other abuses.

    I have been so disappointed in so many people this year I’m almost past anger to numbness. Christians who voted Trump made a mockery of my life as an American missionary kid. I stood up for my country and took the bullying for what?! I thought Americans were kind and caring. Well, this year I saw the most vile and vicious hearts among professing Christians.

    If it weren’t for my husband and. children, I wish I’d stayed in the U.K.-Christians I knew there don’t generally idolize one party over there and they care about people right where they are, regardless of religion.

    This year many evangelicals labeled anyone who opposed Trump as Libtards, which is abusiveness and offensive on every level and a great way to shut down discussion. They rejected foreigners, and now there is no place for me in American evangelicalism, and I won’t be back.

    People who will vote for a sexual assault braggart who already abuses people publicly in slightly lesser ways, refusing to believe the victims of sexual assault who speak up, are no better than those in evangelicalism who protect abusers. That is not disrespectful, Jack Graham or whoever suggested this is in sin for twisting truth like that, that is the truth that should shame us.

    Moore was the only one, who on this issue, gave me hope. He spoke the difficult truth. Evangelicals need to stop playing politics and humble themselves to follow Christ.

    My deepes grief this year has been to find out that American evangelicals, with all their Christian resources, blogs, and support, are utterly Biblically illiterate and disobedient to the truth. They fear globalism and terrorism more than they hate sin and love Christ. They are willing to compromise for a little political power rather than be Christlike whatever the cost. To take out their failure of discipleship on Moore, whatever the other issues may be, is wicked.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Melody this post was born over what I have witnessed this past month. I have seen the unthinkable. People angry over child sex abuse allegedly covered up in SGM who support Trump and dismiss the Access Hollywood tape. People who claim how committed they are in their faith and yet just dismiss the situation with Trump. I have also noticed that those who voted for Trump are viciously defending it, its like the individual I knew who attended Sovereign Grace who felt like he had to defend it. Why can’t Christians just admit and said “I screwed up.” There is a deep level of fear here in Washington, D.C. that I am running into as I go about my life. I see it daily. And then I see how the church acted. I am wondering if the church is entering a new dark age, or a new medieval period. But when an atheist and a leading member of TGC gets it right we should support them both. Hemant Mehta’s criticism is spot on and I am grateful that he blogs. More people need to listen to him. Plus Russell Moore was correct to have said all that he has stated about Trump. I hope he will continue.


  2. What is the difference between Mark Driscoll and Donald Trump?

    Mark Driscoll didn’t have a shot at the White House.
    No chance for Christianese Kingmakers to call in their favors.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Being more upset at the calling out of sin than decision itself is very typical of how it goes when Christians who are in error are rebuked. The one calling out the error becomes the bad guy. That’s why the prophets were killed quite often in the Bible by the people who claims to belong to God. Sadly nothing has changed. The church is a mixture of true and false believers, plus there are true believers who are mature and wise and true believers who are young (in their faith not necessarily age related) and stupid. It stinks but that’s really how it’s always been. 😦 At the risk of sounding like I’m just giving a pat answer, I will say that it just shows that Christians are sinners ( even more so than they themselves are aware of) who along with everyone else, still need Jesus more than ever. Since this is a problem that goes back as far as history records, I don’t think we are going to see an end to it until history is completed. All we can do is keep speaking the truth regardless of who comes against us.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. I dismiss the Access Hollywood tape, and here is why. The woman that he was discussing was not grabbed at all. Nancy Odell made a statement after the release of the tape, and Nancy was the subject of the tape. If he would have actually grabbed her, she would have so stated. In addition, that discussion was not meant for the public to hear. It was between 2 men. What 2 men discuss in private, is supposed to stay private, and I don’t care what the conversation was about.

    Trump was embarrased, and apologized. I guess no one heard that part, huh? But people didn’t want to know that the story was not true to begin with, they actually think that he really grabs women by the crotch, telling people that he ADMITTED to it. NO, he did not admit to it. He told a fish story, but I guess every fisherman has caught a fish THIS BIG now, huh, just because they ADMITTED to it?

    Next, I know that the default these days is to believe women who accuse. But that is not my default. My default is that if people are going to accuse, they do it in a proper manner, in a court of law, notifying the proper authorities, getting an investigation started, interviewing witnesses, etc., not in the media spotlight a week before an election with Gloria Alred by your side. Even Donald Trump’s wife told the media that the proper place to make accusations is in a court of law, not the media.

    I get hammered time and time again that women are scared and afraid to go to the proper authorities to report these things. I guess the prisons are empty of sex offenders, if that were really true. But, they had no problem going to Gloria Alred to give her a feature story a week before an election. Why didn’t they at least go to her during the primaries at the minimum? TIMIMG is important. In other words, I don’t buy their story for a minute.

    Oh, but then the media was so interested in the first class flight woman accuser, so they interviewed her. She turned out to be a wing ding of a liar by so many made up stories, telling Anderson Cooper that she was alright about it when it was her chest that he was playing with, but that is where she drew the line, then accusing Trump of going to her crotch after lifting the arm rest. HOGWASH. Numerous former airline stewardesses called in to various conservative talk radio stating that in those days, arm rests did not go up, AND that the stewardesses were at your beck-in-call constantly, so there would be witnesses of inappropriate behavior, and no time for it to happen to begin with.

    Finally, I’m not a fan of a protestant pope dictating to anyone as to who to vote for, or even what to believe, and how to believe it. Russell Moore is an individual US American citizen, just like the rest of us, and he can vote for anyone he wishes, but he has no right to tell anyone else how to vote, or who to vote for. And, when you get down to it, no one listened to Russell Moore, except a few people, meaning that he has no power over anyone’s decision making. He said some pretty nasty things about Thomas Jefferson that I saw, too…a former president of the United States of America, major author of the Declaration of Independence. I don’t trust Russell Moore to make any decisions for anyone except for himself and his own family.

    But, that’s just me.

    Ed Chapman


    • What 2 men discuss in private, is supposed to stay private, and I don’t care what the conversation was about

      So that makes it okay Ed? What two guys say in “private” is okay? Why the outrage over the Mark Driscoll comments? I mean that was on a private bulletin board at Mars Hill. Why the outraged? Not only that but the Mark Driscoll comments are 5 years older and come from 2000. So because Mark Driscoll taught that women are penis homes on a private bulletin board that was internal at Mars Hill does that make it okay> Should women be referred to as penis homes? If people are going to dismiss the Access Hollywood tape then I think Mark Driscoll’s pussified nation comments should also be dismissed. Or are the double standards in evangelicalism too uncomfortable to talk about?

      Also what about accusations? So only when people talk about them in a court of law that is okay? There are people in the US military afraid to come forward because no one will believe them. In some cases it takes people who were abused years to come forward. What about if the legal system backfired? Casey Anthony was acquitted as I recall. Maybe you can book her as a babysitter the next time you want to have a date night with the wife. 🙂


    • “The woman that he was discussing was not grabbed at all. Nancy Odell made a statement after the release of the tape, and Nancy was the subject of the tape.”

      uh, so? You want a guy who brags about taking advantage of women who never does, or a guy who brags about women and does? Both are losers. One is just more delusional about his loserdom.


      • He never took advantage of grabbing anyone’s “P”, terriergal. That’s my point. He never sexually assaulted anyone, terriergal. That’s my point. I find more evil intentions of the people who made that tape public than I do of the private conversation that was not intended for the public to hear. There was evil motive for releasing that tape, and it backfired on the media that released it. Good. Trump and his supporters get the last laugh. People are glorifying in false accusations of Trump of sexual assaulting women, when he did no such thing. Those who glorify in the false accusations, they are the ones full of evil intent, not Trump. Those people falsely claim that Trump “admitted” to sexual assault.

        Does anyone know who Charles Barkley is?

        Charles Barkley is Former NBA player and TNT commentator and he was interviewed in regards to the Trump tape. In an article that can easily be found, this is what was said:

        “While many athletes have decried Donald Trump’s assessment of the sexually aggressive comments he made over a hot mic in 2005 — what he later described as “locker room talk” — Charles Barkley said Tuesday that such reactions are disingenuous.

        “It is never appropriate to sexually assault or harass a woman, ever — there’s no place for that,” Barkley said during TNT’s “Inside the NBA” media luncheon. “But to act like I have not heard or said something inappropriate that I wouldn’t want to get to the public, it’s just not true. I played for 16 years . . . but to act like in my 16 years in an NBA locker room, I haven’t heard sexually explicit stuff or said sexually explicit stuff, that’s just not true.”

        The article closed with Barkley saying this:

        ““I heard a bunch of guys come out and say, ‘We never talk like that in the locker room, which is BS,’ ” he said. “I never want to be disingenuous.”

        And yet, some have said that they have spent a lifetime in a locker room, and never heard that kind of talk. Must be nice to live in a self righteous Christian community, where there is no four letter words spoken.

        But what I find even more interesting is how much people are decrying Trump, saying that he is lost, but yet, defend gay rights, and Islam, in the name of freedom and divercity, knowing that they are even more lost. Priorities are very strange.

        Ed Chapman


      • I am not a Mark Driscol fan, and I might add, due to that fact that I am not in the same denominational belief system, I could care less about what he preaches. Just as long as he isn’t preaching it to me. If he were, I know where the exit door is. Apparently, some people didn’t know where that door was located.

        They must have like what he was preaching if they didn’t leave. They were paying his salary, right? Pay to be badmouthed to? Is that how it works? Not in my Christian world.

        Ed Chapman


  5. Wondering Eagle,

    You had said:
    “There are people in the US military afraid to come forward because no one will believe them”

    I was in the US Navy for over 17 years. The Uniform Code of Military Justice is in place. There is a chain of command. There is a means to report crimes in the military. There is NCIS. There is many means to report a crime in the military. Every service member has a right to write a letter to their congressmen, as well.

    I had injustice done to me in the military. I retorted by contacting several US Congressmen, not just my own, and let me tell you that the ball got rolling pretty fast, and I was stationed in Yokosuka Japan. Several high level people came to my ship to investigate. My commanding officer confronted me in the passageway one day as to the many congressional inquiries that he was getting.

    You keep wanting to raise the issue of no one believing accusations of actual abuse. I find that as a terrible excuse to not seek justice as the bible tells us to. Seek Justice is in the bible, is it not? We are not to seek vengence, but justice. Seeking out the media a week before an election is telling me that there are NO VICTIMS to begin with, just those seeking their 15 minutes of fame in order to get Hillary to win the election, because every naysayer was telling Americans on the news media that Trump will never be president, but a week before the election, they were scared that Hillary just might lose. I’m sorry, but I don’t see any victims in this case. I can’t exactly victim blame if I don’t see that a victim even exists, now can I?

    Trump wanted to be president, and many many many people tried to derail it, including atheists that could care less about the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    But yes, what two men say in private is none of anyone’s business, not now, not ever.



  6. Wondering Eagle,

    You had said:
    “If people are going to dismiss the Access Hollywood tape then I think Mark Driscoll’s pussified nation comments should also be dismissed. Or are the double standards in evangelicalism too uncomfortable to talk about? ”

    There has been numerous people, including myself, that have said that this nation has become a pussified nation, inluding top news personalities. Others, however have softened the language to “woosyfied”. Same same as far as I am concerned. I do not see any double standard as you seem to see. I see it as truth being told. Like I said, I was in the military and served under the Ronald Reagan era, when MTV actually played music video’s, and our enemies feared us, and we were known as E Pluribus Unim, instead of out of one, many. This nation has changed to the worst since the 80’s, worse than the last Sunday School teacher that we had for president, that peanut farmer guy, former SBC member, Jimmy Carter. Ya, we tried that Sunday school teacher thing once. Didn’t work out so well.

    Ed Chapman


    • Saying the nation is feminized (or ‘pussified’ as you may call it) is different from saying that you may grab a pussy whenever you feel like it if you own the place.


  7. “another article for the New York Times called “Have Evangelicals Who Support Trump Lost Their Values?” Moore continued his criticism. To make it simple Moore said that to back Trump would mean that evangelicals would have to repudiate everything they believe.”

    “Everything they believe”? That is a whole lot of hyperbole. This makes it sound like the choice was between good and evil. I’m frankly amazed at the frenzy against not just Trump but those who voted for Trump. We were all faced with two “deplorable” candidates. Doing a quick search of Moore’s political background, he is/was a Democrat, I suspect Moore’s criticism is moral grandstanding.

    I also would not call in the NY Times to expound on losing values. When the senator from my state of Oregon lost his seat due to abusing women, and shortly following was the Clarence Thomas hearings, the NY Times was in high dungeon. That was followed by lot of ink used to promote “the year of the woman”. All well and good till a few years later there was a credible allegation of rape against their guy and then near silence. No, if you want to bring in a credible source on moral indignation, the NY Times does not qualify.

    Part of the problem is there was little way left to accurately represent Trump in the context of prior elections when relatively decent candidates were still vilified in the new media. This year I don’t know one person who was enthusiastic, even mildly about either candidate. This was one of the first elections where I felt I didn’t have “a dog in the fight”. I think most votes came down to issues entirely different than the character of the candidate.

    For those who were out there publicly supporting either candidate and specifically basing it on their “Christian” beliefs, I question their judgement to say the least. For those who voted for either candidate I would ask for their respect and for those judging someone else on their vote, they should lay off the moral grandstanding and indignation.


  8. If I were elected president, I would do everything the way Donald Trump has already done it. I voted for him because he is a business man, he has a backbone and he is not a people pleaser. Definitely not a politician. That’s what our country needs. Every good business man knows how to put smart people in key positions that know what they are doing. Has he not been doing this? Knowing spiritual areas are not his strong suit, did he not pick Mike Pence for vice-president? Has he not been ridding the government of much of its “stupidness” already? Would I have voted for Donald Trump to be a pastor or an elder? No. Would I vote for a pastoral candidate to start dealing with Russia and China? Probably not. Am I a Christian? Absolutely. Did I have a Donald Trump sign in my yard as a statement of agreeing with his views on the GOVERNMENT? Totally. As far as the media video about Trump…well, I am a woman. If you secretly had a microphone on me in the past when I have said that all men are _______, you could have a field day if I were running for president. I’d be pegged as a man hater and would be scrutinized beyond measure, right? All except for the people who think for themselves and are just merely thankful that they haven’t had media microphones on them when they have spoken with a friend in private. When I look at Donald Trump, at least I see a person who is real, not claiming to be someone that he is not. Many Christians could learn from this. He is not “polished”, which is exactly what many people, including myself, like. After reading Russell Moore’s comments, I’d probably rather be around Donald Trump with all of his “antics” than Russell Moore’s Christian polish and judgment. With that I am pretty sure. All of the nonsense in this last post makes me feel like putting my Trump sign up again- mostly for Russell Moore and his supporters. And no, I do not support sexual abuse of women, not even close. However, I have not seen any proof of this with Donald Trump- just a few women looking for a moment of fame. I agree wholeheartedly with chapmaned24. I also won’t give a tape to the media about my friend commenting on a man’s abs the other day. How horrible of her….


    • Laurie, respectfully, we are going to have to disagree on this issue. Part of the reason why I feel the way I do is because through an incident I learned why rape and sexual assault is a problem in the military. I am still stunned and in shock. I don’t take sexual assault lightly whether it be what Brock allegedly did to his wife, or what Donald Trump boasted about. I have played a lot of sports growing up and have been in a lot of locker rooms but I can’t recall something to this effect. The other thing that led me to write this is what Hemant Mehta said. I really wish the Christian community would consider themselves from the outside more. Hemant Mehta as a prominent atheist blogger nailed it and revealed the issues that the SBC still struggles with. I don’t think we moved forward…I think we moved backward. Actually this mentality is why I think Steve Estes is still in power and why Community Evangelical Free is playing out in your backyard of Elverson. Its the dark side of humanity on display. Please take care! 🙂


      • Wondering Eagle said:
        “I have played a lot of sports growing up and have been in a lot of locker rooms but I can’t recall something to this effect. ”

        My response:
        Really? So Trump is the only one who does this? Let me tell you something…I’ve been around longer than you have, been around the world numerous times, and I can tell you that I have seen and heard things that your virgin ears have never heard and seen. You have lived a very sheltered life, my friend. I have hung out at bars where both men and women participate in the same talk, and yes, that was in the military.

        Oh my, you are still wet behind the ears. And, I’ve already declared my military service, so I have no clue as to what you are talking about.

        Sexual crimes are taken very serious, and all and I do mean all service members are required once per year to attend a sexual harrassment class, and that includes civilians working for the military, too.

        I was active duty from 1983 to 2000. So, please, enlighten us about the military’s injustice with the UCMJ.



      • Ed, please be respectful. I don’t want to have to moderate you. Please treat people with respect. I am allowing you to post and speak you mind, but don’t attack people in the process please.


      • You know what gets me Wondering Eagle? Self Righteous Christians who think that they can dictate to others as to what he believes should be the conduct of Christians, i.e. Russell Moore.

        1 Corinthians 10:29
        Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man’s conscience?

        Self righteous Christians thinking that they have the right to run my life? Nope, Russell Moore does not have that right, and no religious person has that right to tell others who to vote for, nor to hint that it would be a sin to vote for whatever candidate that he disagrees with. He’s out of line.

        Ed Chapman


      • Well, Wondering, you and I come from different generations, I suppose. I do not consider an atheist point of view in regards to Christianity. And, being a veteran that began a military service over 30 years ago, I do not agree with your stance on things. I do not agree with the way the people of today’s generation defines racism, or bigotry, or ignorance. I do not agree with today’s generation of the denegration of the US American Flag, or what they percieve that it stands for, oppression. I’m not in the same mindset of today’s generation that thinks that the United States of America is a free-for-all due to the word “freedom”. People are being falsly accused of things, without proof of any evidence, but people are quick to believe hearsay, and people have forgotten about seeking justice for actual crimes. Illegal aliens are not undocumented immigrants, for example. I have a constitutional right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but when someone elses right to religious freedom infringes on my God given rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, I have a problem with Islam that seeks to kill the infidel, but we, who believe that get called racists, and bigots. No sir, I do not stand by Russell Moore. He has no right tell me anything about what to believe.

        That is my final thought on the matter.


        Ed Chapman


      • Ed-

        Who is crushing your religious freedom? Has your church been closed down? Have you been told you can’t read your Bible? Have you been told you can’t believe in Jesus? If so please let
        me know I would love to write about it. To believe you are being “persecuted” is really a mockery to those in North Korea and China who are facing persecution. Evangelicals in the United
        States don’t know what persecution is. They don’t even have a clue. Ed, I honestly wonder how many evangelicals would have fared in the days of Ancient Rome or Greece. I mean If people go unhinged over two gays who are atheists getting married in New York what would they have done in the sexual moors of Rome or Greece? And let’s not forget that for many it also means look the other way when corruption in the church is overlooked and concealed. I am blunt and I am different. Its who I am and its born out of what transpired in my life.


      • Wondering,

        Your response is exactly why I do not like your generations mindset of what your generation perceives as “freedom”. Plant a seed, reap what you sow.

        You have no idea, being so young and all, as to the destructive outcome of what you propose to be the right thing to do. Apparently, you have not been keeping up with what has been going on in Germany, France, San Bernadino, New York, Boston, and I could go on and on.

        Now, you are accusing me of being “ignorant” of what happens in China and N. Korea? Dude, I’ve was stationed in Japan, and have been to S Korea several times, and was once engaged to a Chinese gal that escaped China to Hong Kong as a little girl. And now, you think that you can “educate” ME about China and North Korea?

        Whatever happened to “respect your elders”? Children of today do not respect their elders at all. they seem to think that respect is “earned”. Who taught them that nonsense? Today’s generation gets “safe spaces” and tissues because they get offended easily. And you wonder why we say that this is a woosyfied nation?

        Today’s generation is extremely strange in their beliefs, and telling people about what Jesus would do, when they don’t even know the Bible at all. Jesus wants us to flee the devil, not to endorse his wickedness as our neighbor.

        Plant a seed, and you get what you sow. And it spreads, like a cancer. I do not like your generation, Wondering. Not in the least.

        Ed Chapman


      • I mean If people go unhinged over two gays who are atheists getting married in New York what would they have done in the sexual moors of Rome or Greece?

        (you might have to skip through the commercial before the actual video)


  9. What happened to Russ Moore’s strong stance on Patriarchy while at SBTS? Ya think that would not go over well with WaPo and NYT? Russ Moore’s an opportunist.

    I guess I am confused why Hillary’s revictimization of Bills victims of predation did not receive equal time from Moore. Have people forgotten about the Bimbo erruption team Hillary devised to dig up dirt on the women who came forward? Her press conference telling us it was none of our business, a private matter and a right wing conspiracy. Juanita Broderick claims Bill raped her when he was AG of Ark. Kathleen Willey, Paula Jones deserved Jack Pallidin hired by Hillary to dig up dirt on them?

    People who say they support victims seem to be very imbalanced these days. There seems to be a lot of PC even in the victim support world. At the very least give some balance.

    Russ Moore is an opportunist. Not a balanced man of principle. He looks for the issues he thinks will give him space in the WaPo and NYT. He went way beyond his charge at the ERLC which should be dissolved. It’s about Moore receiving media attention from the the elitist media who want to tell us what we should think.


  10. I have lost some respect for your column. First, really? You are comparing Donald Trump, under the microscopic scrutiny of the media, claiming to get the junk out of Washington and get our country back to a capitalist and respectable country in the eyes of other countries to Steve Estes, the PASTOR of a local CHURCH, trying to cover up corruption? Wouldn’t even want to take the time to comment further on that. I don’t know you at all, but I do think that you possibly need to “get out there” a little more. Please do not bring that up again.

    A final thought before I am done with all this … Abuse of women is wrong- I would defend a woman anytime anywhere if I thought she were a VICTIM and I stand 100% in defense of abused women out there. I see NO proof that Donald Trump is an ABUSER of women. Does he clearly like what women look like, yes…so do my sons. Speaking as a mom of young men… why don’t you take a good, long look at many young girls and women today and make a column out of that? I was walking through Walmart the other day with my 12 year old and a poster, (in the flip along poster section) was open to a beautiful, tan woman in a sexy bikini seductively posing on the beach. My 12 year old made a growling noise and then smiled. I said, “She has the same things I have and every other woman in the world has…” Then, to make it real, I said, “But we don’t all look like that, do we?” And we both just laughed, he made his noise again, and we moved along. Is it time for a lecture on RESPECTING women???? Absolutely not! It is time for a comment on how God made men to visually enjoy a woman’s body and one day he can enjoy his wife, however, in the mean time he is going to have to proactively protect his eyes because and here it is…many women, whether it be Hollywood, news broadcasters, business women, moms or middle school teenagers have sexualized THEMSELVES. I see the way many young girls and women dress, have you? I see legs and breasts every where I go! Am I justifying Donald Trump’s comments backstage at a pageant or justifying my 12 year old’s grunting noise. No, I ‘m asking why a beautiful woman is posing mostly naked on a beach with someone taking a picture of her and why beautiful women are posing mostly naked, with hair and makeup done, with heels on and walking out in front of the world? Now there’s a thought, huh? ….and I’m a woman saying this… and a model too for that matter. I wouldn’t even want anyone to tell me what my boys and their friends said if they walked back stage at the pageant! (…and they are growing up in a Christian home!!….wouldn’t want Russell Moore to get a hold of that!) What would be really funny is if Russell Moore were unguarded and we could publish his THOUGHTS back stage. Guess he wouldn’t have much to say after that, would he? Let’s be REAL and THINK for ourselves. Back to politics….isn’t Betsy DeVos a woman? A woman picked based on her knowledge, skills and passions for education. Good for Donald Trump. Good for Betsy Devos Never heard of Russell Moore before your column because I purposely stay away from all that polished, self righteous and judgmental stuff. Still wish I never heard of him. All you have done is solidify my thoughts on that matter.


  11. Interesting post. I would like to offer you my story of this election.
    I am a conservative who has not been happy with Republicans in Washington. They campaign like they have a backbone, go to Washington without one. Change in direction was necessary. During the primaries my candidates of choice through time were: Scott Walker, Ben Carson, then voted for Ted Cruz in the Kansas primary. Trump wins the nomination, pragmatism kicks in. There were two choices in the election: Trump and Clinton. The election was not a referendum on Trump, it was a choice between Trump and Clinton. I chose Trump.
    There was much at stake in this election: the Supreme court, regulatory direction, economic direction, rule of law, national security, freedom. From my point of view Trump has a decent chance of being on the right side of each of those issues, Clinton based on what I have observed has no chance of seeing things my way. In the general election Trump was the only choice. In the primaries he was intriguing, but my 4th or 5th choice.
    I appreciate Trump’s backbone. I appreciate that the Democrat’s and media’s assaults didn’t make him buckle like most other Republicans would. I hope that attitude and fortitude continues when the issues mentioned above are addressed. Despite the brash and sometimes crass exterior, I see humility in Trump.
    During the primary I would have some sympathy for Moore’s point of view, during the general everything changes. During the general you must live in reality, pragmatism was the only choice, too much at stake this election. Trump’s opponent was absolutely unacceptable.


    • DLC, thanks for your comment and I hope you feel welcome. You are free to stick around as long as you like.
      I have two questions for you.

      1. What do you think of what Hemant Mehta, who is a prominent atheist blogger said about this situation? That tweet by Mehta is what
      tipped me to write this post.

      2. Also there is another issue as well. In all other election contests evangelicals long had the cry of character. Do you remember when it went public that Bill Clinton had an affair with Monica Lewinsky and ejaculated on her dress? The cries by many Southern Baptists and other evangelicals was “Character!, Character!!, Character!!” Many in the SBC felt Bill Clinton was unqualified for the office due to that incident. How did the evangelical Christian movement go from being outraged over the Monica Lewinsky affair to dismissing the allegations against Donald Trump and the “grab them by the pussy comment”

      The other interesting dimension that I did not write about in this post is the interest that many evangelicals have with Detrich Bonhoeffer which is due to Eric Metaxas work. Bonhoffer spoke about the responsibility of leadership if I remember correctly and would likely have differed with James Dobson, Franklin Graham, etc… today. I could be mistaken and if I am wrong I invite correction.


      • “How did the evangelical Christian movement go from being outraged over the Monica Lewinsky affair to dismissing the allegations against Donald Trump”
        I don’t travel in the same circles that I used to but my connections are still that I can make two observations. We may be speaking of different individuals but from what I read and those I talked to, many if not most did not dismiss the allegations, it was a struggle to vote for either candidate. Second the character problems with President Clinton went beyond the abuse of an intern and his office with regards to Lewinsky but to a credible allegation of rape. That makes the comparison between the men not even that of apples and oranges but of vulgar speech vs criminal behavior.

        The question I’d be interested in is what is the point you are trying to make. Is it that no Christian should have voted for Trump or that they should not have supported his candidacy publically? Should everyone have voted for Clinton? I really don’t get it. Agreed, Trump is an asshat, can you acknowledge that his opponent also had serious character issues?


      • Bill… I find it disturbing that so many people would dismiss the allegations of sexual assault against Donald Trump. I know people will say, “what about Bill Clinton?” I am aware of the allegations involving Juanita Broderick, etc… I have read them. And while I don’t think those can be dismissed there is one key difference. Bill Clinton wasn’t running for President, his wife was. Now if Bill Clinton was the candidate then I would say, “fair game” and “true.” But I don’t look at it in that frame of mind.

        What profoundly bothers me is that some of the people I know who voted for Trump just out and dismissed the allegations. I actually look at evangelicalism in a darker light today than I did in the past. Part of me is wondering if its too far gone. How could people be outraged by Mark Driscoll or other shady characters and then vote for basically the same type of person. In addition it really showed how ethically bankrupt many evangelicals are. They are all about values until it comes to politics and then it goes out the window. I was looking at my Facebook feed the other day and I noticed some people liking Franklin Graham’s comments criticizing Meryl Streep. What Meryl Streep did was brave and courageous and I respect her for it. Calling out someone who attacked a disabled reporter is the right thing to do. Franklin Graham shows ho ethically bankrupt he is when he won’t stand up for a person with a physical disability. But I consider Franklin Graham a fraud in many ways already. Nepotism and cronyism are a major issue with him.

        But if people voted for Trump after spending a lot of time saying “I disagree with…” I could stomach it more.

        We have had a dark taste of what is going to happen for the next 4 years already, and I am wondering if Christians are going to be able to admit their mistakes and say, “we screwed up it was wrong to support Trump.” But I anticipate many won’t have the balls to actually do that. I think what Bill Maher says about evangelicals is really spot on Bill.


      • Wondering Eagle,

        You had said:
        “I find it disturbing that so many people would dismiss the allegations of sexual assault against Donald Trump.”

        My response:
        I find it disturbing that people actually believe the allegations against Donald Trump.

        As far as Meryl Streep, I find it disturbing that Hollywood thinks that they speak for the citizens of America.

        When I first saw that video of that disabled reporter, I knew it would be fodder for you people. But I interpreted it as he was making fun of a reporter, that just so happened to be disabled. In other words, he did not make fun of the disabled. That reporter deserved to be mocked, due to his inaccurate and misleading story. His disability was not mocked, he was being mocked. But, people like you will only see what you want.

        Myself, I actually listened to what Trump had to say outside of the distractions that the left, and people like you in the Never Trump movement endorsed. You wanted Trump to lose, and it would never have mattered if he was Jesus Christ himself, you would have condemned him no matter what.

        Timing is why I don’t believe the sexual abuse charges. Gloria Alred is why I don’t believe the sexual abuse charges. The woman in that First Class Flight was caught lying about First Class flights, and she even told Anderson Cooper on CNN that she was absolutely fine and dandy that he was playing with her boobs, which was all a fabrication, a lie proven to be a lie. None of her story was true.

        So, I am disgusted that you believe any allegations of sexual abuse. The “Locker Room Talk” ws just that, and it amazes me that you have never heard that kind of talk in your life, when it is documented that talk is indeed normal talk among the NBA folks as I noted earlier, where they come out publicly denying it, but was corrected by an actual NBA player and now commentator. He basically called those players liars.

        So, I am disgusted that you and others actually think that Trump “admitted” to sexually abusing women.

        Ed Chapman


  12. Pingback: Reconciling with a Catholic Priest in California, Some Thoughts on Roman Catholicism | Wondering Eagle

  13. “What Meryl Streep did was brave and courageous”
    I’m still finding a tone deafness. This is the same Meryl Streep who years ago was one of the first to give a standing ovation to an award given to Roman Polanski. He couldn’t receive it in person because he fled a prosecution for child rape.

    Yes Evangelical Christians are guilty of hypocrisy but please Eagle, please be aware that using the likes of the Washington Post to put forward your take on “fake news” and now using Meryl Streep as an example of moral courage just leaves me bewildered. Seriously, is it part of being in the Washington bubble? Half the country has an entirely different take.

    Note I am not excusing Trump or his supporters, but if you want people to consider your point of view you will need to do a better job of considering theirs. Do I have to like either Franklin Graham or Meryl Streep, no, they are both wealthy hypocrites unable or unwilling to confront their own crowd.

    Also please note that I was not transposing the former President’s rape allegation to his wife. There has been a pattern of reports on her own character problems, corruption and abuse of her own staff being a few. I just don’t think the choice between the two is as clear cut as you think it is. You don’t need to visit the conservative fever swamps to find the stories but you will not find them in the NY Times or the WaPo.

    In the end it goes both ways, if half the country ‘heard a lot of time saying (about Clinton) “I disagree with…” (they) could stomach it more. ‘


  14. Pingback: An Open Letter to Russell Moore | Wondering Eagle

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