Guest Post: Confession, Gossip, and Ashley Madison; How Pastors Gossip

Often times pastors teach about gossip and slander. They even have warned about blogging and writing. While many individuals in congregations are shamed, the dirty secret is that many pastors socialize, get together and do the thing they rebuke others for doing. They gossip about each other’s congregations. This is a guest post from Ross Decker Sr. about the evangelical Christian church in Staten Island, New York. The reality however, is that this can apply anywhere.

“Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip.”

Will Rogers

“Today’s gossip is tomorrow’s headline.”

Walter Winchell

“Then keep your tongue from speaking evil and your lips from telling lies!”

Psalm 34:13 NLT

 

When I attended Fairfax Community Church there was one conversation that stood out between me and the Senior Pastor Rod Stafford. We met in a room and were talking. I was slowly coming out of a long, protracted faith crisis that resulted in me rejecting Christianity and exploring atheism, all while I proclaimed myself agnostic. I stayed out of a Sovereign Grace Ministries church plant in the D.C. area called Redeemer Arlington. When I was talking with Rod I told him of my background in the Evangelical Free Church of America and he told me he didn’t know what was happening in the Evangelical Free Church. Then somehow the Acts 29 network came up and I expressed my deep concerns about it, and said that the DNA of Mark Driscoll was a problem in the organization. What happened next stunned me, as I never expected to hear it. Fairfax Community Church is in the Church of God in Anderson, Indiana denomination. Its roots are in the Wesleyan Holiness movement. In that conversation Rod looked at me and said that the Acts 29 network was not that bad, and that maybe a few years ago it was different, but he said that he knew and was close to an Acts 29 pastor. I had not expected to hear that and the thing that went through my mind is the following…did Rod and this other pastor talk about their congregation? Did they share information about their congregation, or people that were “problems?” I had always thought that pastors kept much of what they were told to themselves. After hearing this now I was not so certain, and in time I walked away from this conversation with second thoughts.

Fairfax Community Church’s theology should be different than a Neo-Calvinist network  like Acts 29. In regards to Fairfax Community there were a number of things that occurred in the course of time. I ran into some authoritarianism through Andy Gingrich, plus there was this questionable church growth campaign where Rod Stafford ran the Book of Nehemiah through the wood chipper to get the congregation on board.  Then there is this situation I wrote about here, where Fairfax put a violent sex offender in the Care Group Director’s spot and concealed that information from the congregation. That was another abuse of power and trust in how that was handled. In light of those situations in Fairfax Community Church I now view the pastoral networks and friendships as opportunities to share information about congregations. Pastors do the same thing they preach from the pulpit not to do – they gossip!

Today I asked for permission to re-run a guest post from another blog called “Broken Thinking.” In light of the previous post about gossip and slander I thought this is more than appropriate. This post turns the table and reveals how pastors engage in gossip. Ross Decker Sr. who lives in the Staten Island area gave me his permission to run “Confessions, Gossip and Ashley Madison“. This post talks about the evangelical culture in Staten Island, but really it can happen anywhere. It can happen in Farmington Hills, Michigan; the Washington, D.C. area;  Fullerton, California or Omaha, Nebraska. This post reveals a flaw in evangelical culture. Its my understanding that Ross Decker Sr. went through a lot in the church. Today I believe he left the evangelical scene and went to the Catholic church.

I just want to say a few words to Ross. Ross I am sorry for what happened, but maybe you can take comfort in knowing that there are many people hurting and a lot of issues hemorrhaging out of evangelicalism. I write about my tribe because I want to make it better, and directly challenge it. They only way it will improve is to reveal these problems and confront them. There are a lot of people who have been through so much, so maybe you can take comfort in knowing that you are not suffering alone…or in silence. Some people who read here have been in questionable movements or sects that abused their power. Others have dealt with sexual or domestic abuse in the church, and saw that covered up. Others are secular and have dealt with discrimination and hate by evangelical Christians. In each person it is different. For me Ross I endured a false accusation from a friend who claimed he loved me. He tried to get me involved in a SGM Church Plant in the D.C. area called Redeemer Arlington. In the false accusation I suffered and cried through I learned why rape and sexual assault is a problem in the military. Many of us are dealing with our own dark season respectively. But you are not alone. Take care of yourself and I hope you find the peace you are craving. We’re here for you Ross! 🙂


 

“Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. This is my first confession.”

When I said those words, it struck me that I’d  never thought that The Penitential Act of confession would be one of the major attractions to Catholicism for me. Why would I sit in a dimly lit booth and speak my sins out loud to another man? For thirty seven years it had been drilled into me that there was no mediator between man and God but Jesus Christ, and I could access God’s forgiveness at any time by merely thinking about it in the privacy of  my head. Now, I was comforted while confessing my sins to a priest.

There was something very welcoming to me about confession. I knew for certain that it was the Seal of Confession more than the confession itself that drew me. I knew that whatever I told the priest would not be shared with anyone else, not even with me. And that was very different from the religious culture I’d come from.

During my previous thirty seven years I’d learned that you had to be careful what you allowed people to see of you in church. The Apostle Paul, Saint Paul, wrestled openly with sinful desires. He didn’t hide that. Romans 7:15-20 has him writing “ For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.  For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.” Let me be clear; Saint Paul would be excluded from ministry in a few churches I’d attended. 

In all of the churches I’d attended, only one pastor, Glenn Blossom, ever admitted to the same struggle Saint Paul so openly wrote about. His openness about his own temptations and failings created such a comfortable environment at that church. He often said that the church, a precursor to our heavenly family, must be the safest place on earth. I wonder too, if the ability to speak freely about ‘little’ sins might be a good defense against the major failings we’ve seen via Ashley Madison. Maybe, if Josh Duggar and Sam Rader weren’t conditioned to hide their sin as a means of self preservation, perhaps someone could have helped them avoid this latest scandal.

Needless to say, those other churches were never the safest places on earth. Following the pastoral lead, everyone dedicated themselves to hiding and denying any sin issues in their lives. To be discovered would mean being shamed, being curtailed from any ministry you might be doing and, what I didn’t find out until much later, being grist for the pastor gossip mill. Just before I left the Evangelical church on my tiny island, I learned the secret that moved me out. The pastors on Staten Island socialized regularly. Their topic of conversation? Their congregation.

I was naive enough not to know that. These pastors all preached about the sin of gossip from their pulpits. It was dishonest. It was hurtful. It ruined lives. It tore congregations apart. Yes, they told us that gossip would surely do all these things. And then, they gossiped.

In the last church Liz and I attended, the one that drove me to the open door of Catholicism was where I found this out. Liz was asked by the choir director to take over the choir. This is Liz’s gift, she has led worship for many years. Surprisingly, the pastor said she would not be allowed to do it because she had been greatly hurt in a church fifteen years before. I immediately asked for a meeting with that pastor.

I was concerned about two related things. First, I wondered why he thought Liz was troubled fifteen years after an event. Secondly, I wanted to know why he thought, believing that to be true, would tell it to his current choir director.

The amazing revelation about the meeting was that the pastor realized that Liz and I did not know the two people he’d heard the story from and….wait for it…..he remembered that the story was about someone else and he’d thought the story was about Liz. He didn’t want to create any “confusion” so he thought it best that Liz not become the new choir director anyway. Besides, he said, he’d spoken to another pastor about us and that pastor told him our twitter pages had “dark posts” on them.

I asked him if he didn’t consider all this to be gossip and he assured me that he didn’t. He told me that he regularly got together with a few Island pastors, naming them, and said that they always talked about the people in their congregation. He said they did so to “protect” the congregation. When someone from their churches left to go to another church the past pastor would call the new pastor to alert him to things he should watch for in the new attender. We asked a pastor friend of ours why this could happen and he answered readily. “It’s because pastors believe the lie that they’re special.”

Staten Island is a small island. Knowing that all the pastors gossip about their church was an eye opener to us. But learning it meant there now was no way we could again sit in an Evangelical church without the reasonable fear that the pastor had heard a story about someone else and now thought it was us. We couldn’t listen to another sermon about “integrity” without feeling betrayed. The church was no longer the safest place on earth.

We began to think about the local Catholic Church parishes. We weren’t thinking of converting. We were just looking for a place to live out our faith in the presence of God without worrying about the gossipers. We knew there was no interplay between the Evangelical pastors and the Catholic priests. Catholicism seemed safe. We drove past one church, The Church of The Sacred Heart, and noticed that the door was always open. That attracted us. We went inside. The service was beautiful. There was so much meaning to me at every moment.

So, as I knelt in the confessional, confessing my sins to a priest, I was confident that no one else would hear about them other than the three of us in that booth. Only me, the priest, and god. I knew that the priest would strive to not even remember my confession. He wouldn’t bring those sins up to anyone. Not even me.  I was safe in church, I was home.

As always, I look forward to reading your comments.

7 thoughts on “Guest Post: Confession, Gossip, and Ashley Madison; How Pastors Gossip

  1. Needless to say, those other churches were never the safest places on earth. Following the pastoral lead, everyone dedicated themselves to hiding and denying any sin issues in their lives.

    While sniffing out the SIN issues in everyone else’s lives.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. “Staten Island is a small island. Knowing that all the pastors gossip about their church was an eye opener to us. ”
    I can validate your statement.

    In my community most of the pastors started meeting together several decades ago. At first it seemed a good idea but since then I have found many have replaced their peer relationships with pastor relationships. With that came a lot of shared “intel” on people in their respective congregations or those who left. There is something to be said for the good old days when they didn’t associate with each other.

    I believe that negative information is valuable and have yet to obtain a clear understanding what constitutes gossip and what is legitimate conversation. My basic rule is to limit what I say to what I would say if the person was present, in other words to remain factual. One of the main problems I have with “pastors” is they have a megaphone, a lot more power, and a lot more influence and because of this they should be a hundred times more circumspect in what they say. Instead I have found they are no better and all too many are worse. This unequal rank is also compounded by their natural tendency to close their ranks, it would be safe to say that among “pastors” the word of one of them outweighs the testimony of a half dozen men or women of good reputation.

    While I can recite numerous examples of “pastor” gossip there have been several instances that damaged someone’s credibility such that it would have had significant impact on their vocation. The record was eventually set straight but unfortunately in one case it required the maligned person to grovel before a “pastor”.

    If you had a bad or abusive experience in a church and found it necessary to leave, I strongly suggest you be very circumspect in anything you tell another pastor. They are likely on a first name basis with the former “pastor” and anything you confide will be likely discarded at best or be taken back to the former “pastor” at worst. If you need validation or vindication and it is important, but do not take your case to another pastor.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Bill M, while I agree with 100% of what you wrote, I have had the fortunate (rare?) experience of having found an excellent pastor — and a “safe landing place” church — to whom I’ve been able to confide, and a church which functions as a “family”, the way the former church once did, before the dark times, before the empire.

      So while your advice is sound, and I would be super-careful with new pastors, eventually, one does have to trust again & foster a relationship with a new pastor/church. I’ve been quite fortunate to have found that.

      Full disclosure: I’m also from Staten Island, and know Ross personally & can vouch that everything he wrote is spot-on. Staten Island, with nearly 500,000 people, is the biggest “small town” in the world it seems. 🙂 The “evangelical community” on Staten island is even smaller & more insular though.

      Liked by 1 person

      • ejj – thanks for the clarification. I agree and will correct the impression that I think all pastors are bad. I too have found some very decent and capable people who take on the label of pastor. Unfortunately to many others have taken the name that should denote a humble servant and misinterpreted it as the church commandant.

        Liked by 1 person

    • One of the main problems I have with “pastors” is they have a megaphone, a lot more power, and a lot more influence and because of this they should be a hundred times more circumspect in what they say. Instead I have found they are no better and all too many are worse.

      Privilege of Pastoral Rank.

      Like

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